1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured God is absolute.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 37818, Dec 8, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is a basic doctrine of historic Calvinism. It is under the heading of Supralapsarianism or Infralapsarianism. I teach the Infralapsarian view. But unless you believe in Limited Atonement, you will never see any value in it. Most of the Reformed and early Baptists creeds are Infralapsarian. But you will need to study to uncover this treasure.

    Even still, it leaves you void on any answer as to why God saved you. Still unanswered.
     
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Calvin put us on to the truth, but the Synod of Dort defined it, but only in the first three of the five points.
     
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you do not think God arbitrarily chose to glorify His mercy in you, what is the reason He saved you?
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You were saved by grace by way of your credited faith, and this salvation is not of yourself, it is a gift from God.
     
  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,411
    Likes Received:
    1,762
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Since it is so widely believed in Baptist creeds, it will be easy for you to give a reference to a Protestant scholar that holds your belief that God acts arbitrarily in salvation.

    If you cannot, you must apologize for deliberately misrepresenting your belief as being “precious” or “held dear” by Protestants if you would demonstrate Christian humility and honesty.

    None of the views you mention, as far as I can tell, have God acting arbitrarily in His election to salvation or damnation.

    Your beliefs are unbiblical. If you are teaching this unbiblical nonsense, I pity your students.

    peace to you
     
    #125 canadyjd, Dec 12, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2021
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In some aspects, I agree. The Synod was reactionary (a response to the Five Articles). So it emphasizes some errors in Arminianism.

    But Calvinism and it's daughters (Arminianism and Amyraldianism) are built on error. Calvinism is a philosophy that destroys the biblical concept of the Cross. Thankfully the gospel of Christ shines through.
     
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It's in Chapter three of the 1689 London Baptist confession as far as Arbitrary goes. See if you can make sense of it.
     
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Calvin was off in many ways. That is why we have Baptists and the 1689 and earlier London confessions. But Baptists today have no stomach for it. So it sounds strange even to bring it up in a supposedly Baptist forum.
     
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Keep in mind, Antichrist has ravaged Protestantism. His false teaching is in nearly every "evangelical" church.
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Most Baptists today are of a Calvinistic mindset (whether Calvinism, Arminianism, or somewhere in between).

    But I believe you are right that most do not care to look at what they believe carefully, much less have others put their beliefs under a microscope.

    I noticed this decades ago. It is one reason I changed my path in college. People just did not like the question "but why?"....or I guess maybe I asked it too much. Either way, they had no legitimate answer. I often find the same true today.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,411
    Likes Received:
    1,762
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The word “arbitrary” is not in Chapter 3 of 1689 London Baptist Confession. However, everything I said about God acting according to His will and purpose is there.

    So, your one attempt to quote a source to support your belief that God acts arbitrarily has failed.

    I call on you to repent of your false assertion that this belief is “precious” and “held dear” among Protestant churches.

    Your honor as a Christian is at stake. If you have God Holy Spirit indwelling, I believe you admit the error and apologize.

    peace to you
     
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,981
    Likes Received:
    2,616
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Six hour warning

    This thread will be closed No sooner than 8:30 pm EST / 5:30 pm PST
     
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Use your cognitive skills. The entire Chapter 3 is about the arbitrary election of wicked people to salvation. If this won't break you loose, maybe God will recall it to your thinking sometime before you die.
     
  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You still have not answered why God saved you. Many can not without showing they believe in salvation by works.
     
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    London Baptist Confession 1689, Chapter III; GOD’S DECREE

    3:1 From all eternity God decreed everything that occurs, without reference to anything outside Himself.1 He did this by the perfectly wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably. Yet God did this in such a way that He is neither the author of sin nor has fellowship with any in their sin.2 This decree does not violate the will of the creature or take away the free working or contingency of second causes. On the contrary, these are established by God’s decree.3 In this decree God’s wisdom is displayed in directing all things, and His power and faithfulness are demonstrated in accomplishing His decree.4

    3:2 God knows everything that could happen under any given conditions.5 However, His decree of anything is not based on foreseeing it in the future or foreseeing that it would occur under such conditions.6

    3:3 By God’s decree, and for the demonstration of His glory, some human beings and angels are predestined (or foreordained) to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace.8 Others are left to live in their sin, leading to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9

    3:4 These predestined and foreordained angels and people are individually and unchangeably designated, and their number is so certain and definite that it cannot be either increased or decreased.10

    3:5 Those people who are predestined to life were chosen by God before the foundation of the world, according to His eternal and unchangeable purpose and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will. He chose them in Christ for eternal glory, purely as a result of His free grace and love,11 without anything else about them serving as a condition or cause moving Him to do so.12

    3:6 Just as God has appointed the elect to glory, so He has by the eternal and completely free purpose of His will foreordained all the means.13 Therefore, those who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ14 and effectually called to faith in Christ by His Spirit working at the appropriate time. They are justified, adopted, sanctified,15 and kept by His power through faith to salvation.16 None but the elect are redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved.17

    3:7 The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care so that those heeding the will of God revealed in His Word and obeying Him may be assured of their eternal election by the certainty of their effectual calling.18 In this way this doctrine will give reasons for praise,19 reverence, and admiration of God, as well as humility,20 diligence and rich comfort to all who sincerely obey the gospel.21

    Reeves, S. (2012). Confessing the Faith: The 1689 Baptist Confession for the 21st Century (pp. 16–17). Cape Coral, FL: Founders Press.
     
  16. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,411
    Likes Received:
    1,762
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The entire chapter is about God acting according to His will and purpose. His choices are not arbitrary and these scholars recognized they were not arbitrary which is why the word arbitrary is not used.

    Your attempt to validate your unbiblical belief that God acts arbitrarily by slandering the authors of the 1689 confession has failed. Your attempt to quote even one biblical scholar to support your belief God acts arbitrarily has failed.

    I call on you to repent of your unfounded assertion that Protestants held this unbiblical belief that God acts arbitrarily to be “precious” and “dear”.

    If you have God Holy Spirit indwelling, He must be grieved by your continuous, unbiblical assertion that God acts arbitrarily in salvation and damnation. Having, therefore, grieved the Holy Spirit, you should repent and ask God for forgiveness, lest He smote you for your continuous rebellion.

    peace to you
     
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  17. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,411
    Likes Received:
    1,762
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Highlighting the word “arbitrary” would be helpful.

    peace to you
     
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do not know why God works differently in the lives of people. That is God's business. I know He does not act arbitrarily because this is vontrary to the nature of God as revealed in Scripture. But I suspect if Hod told me his reasons I still would not understand. I am a man. He is God.
     
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,411
    Likes Received:
    1,762
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Let’s not add your false teaching that God acts arbitrarily in salvation and condemnation to Anti-Christ false teaching.

    peace to you
     
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  20. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,981
    Likes Received:
    2,616
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This thread is closed
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...