God is absolute.

[1689Dave]

I’ve already answered directly, you just can’t or won’t accept the answer.

Give a reference to a Protestant scholar that taught God acts arbitrarily concerning salvation. If you can’t, apologize for misrepresenting your position as being “precious” to, or “held dear”, by Protestants.

peace to you

This is a basic doctrine of historic Calvinism. It is under the heading of Supralapsarianism or Infralapsarianism. I teach the Infralapsarian view. But unless you believe in Limited Atonement, you will never see any value in it. Most of the Reformed and early Baptists creeds are Infralapsarian. But you will need to study to uncover this treasure.

Even still, it leaves you void on any answer as to why God saved you. Still unanswered.

 

[1689Dave]

Not really (and I am not sure why you being Limited vs Universal Atonement up here).

I, like you, disagree with Calvinism but for different reasons.

You disagree because Calvinism concludes election decreed by God, never arbitrarily but unknowable to man.

My disagreement is stronger because while you reject a portion of Calvinism I reject Calvinism and Arminianism entirely.

The funny thing is we both end up able to agree with the 5 points if we define how we get there.

Calvin put us on to the truth, but the Synod of Dort defined it, but only in the first three of the five points.

 

[1689Dave]

If you do not think God arbitrarily chose to glorify His mercy in you, what is the reason He saved you?

 

[Van]

If you do not think God arbitrarily chose to glorify His mercy in you, what is the reason He saved you?

You were saved by grace by way of your credited faith, and this salvation is not of yourself, it is a gift from God.

 

[canadyjd]

This is a basic doctrine of historic Calvinism. It is under the heading of Supralapsarianism or Infralapsarianism. I teach the Infralapsarian view. But unless you believe in Limited Atonement, you will never see any value in it. Most of the Reformed and early Baptists creeds are Infralapsarian. But you will need to study to uncover this treasure.

Even still, it leaves you void on any answer as to why God saved you. Still unanswered.

Since it is so widely believed in Baptist creeds, it will be easy for you to give a reference to a Protestant scholar that holds your belief that God acts arbitrarily in salvation.

If you cannot, you must apologize for deliberately misrepresenting your belief as being “precious” or “held dear” by Protestants if you would demonstrate Christian humility and honesty.

None of the views you mention, as far as I can tell, have God acting arbitrarily in His election to salvation or damnation.

Your beliefs are unbiblical. If you are teaching this unbiblical nonsense, I pity your students.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

Calvin put us on to the truth, but the Synod of Dort defined it, but only in the first three of the five points.

In some aspects, I agree. The Synod was reactionary (a response to the Five Articles). So it emphasizes some errors in Arminianism.

But Calvinism and it's daughters (Arminianism and Amyraldianism) are built on error. Calvinism is a philosophy that destroys the biblical concept of the Cross. Thankfully the gospel of Christ shines through.

 

[1689Dave]

Since it is so widely believed in Baptist creeds, it will be easy for you to give a reference to a Protestant scholar that holds your belief that God acts arbitrarily in salvation.

If you cannot, you must apologize for deliberately misrepresenting your belief as being “precious” or “held dear” by Protestants if you would demonstrate Christian humility and honesty.

None of the views you mention, as far as I can tell, have God acting arbitrarily in His election to salvation or damnation.

Your beliefs are unbiblical. If you are teaching this unbiblical nonsense, I pity your students.

peace to you

It's in Chapter three of the 1689 London Baptist confession as far as Arbitrary goes. See if you can make sense of it.

 

[1689Dave]

In some aspects, I agree. The Synod was reactionary (a response to the Five Articles). So it emphasizes some errors in Arminianism.

But Calvinism and it's daughters (Arminianism and Amyraldianism) are built on error. Calvinism is a philosophy that destroys the biblical concept of the Cross. Thankfully the gospel of Christ shines through.

Calvin was off in many ways. That is why we have Baptists and the 1689 and earlier London confessions. But Baptists today have no stomach for it. So it sounds strange even to bring it up in a supposedly Baptist forum.

 

[1689Dave]

Since it is so widely believed in Baptist creeds, it will be easy for you to give a reference to a Protestant scholar that holds your belief that God acts arbitrarily in salvation.

If you cannot, you must apologize for deliberately misrepresenting your belief as being “precious” or “held dear” by Protestants if you would demonstrate Christian humility and honesty.

None of the views you mention, as far as I can tell, have God acting arbitrarily in His election to salvation or damnation.

Your beliefs are unbiblical. If you are teaching this unbiblical nonsense, I pity your students.

peace to you

Keep in mind, Antichrist has ravaged Protestantism. His false teaching is in nearly every "evangelical" church.

 

[JonC]

Calvin was off in many ways. That is why we have Baptists and the 1689 and earlier London confessions. But Baptists today have no stomach for it. So it sounds strange even to bring it up in a supposedly Baptist forum.

Most Baptists today are of a Calvinistic mindset (whether Calvinism, Arminianism, or somewhere in between).

But I believe you are right that most do not care to look at what they believe carefully, much less have others put their beliefs under a microscope.

I noticed this decades ago. It is one reason I changed my path in college. People just did not like the question "but why?"....or I guess maybe I asked it too much. Either way, they had no legitimate answer. I often find the same true today.

 

[canadyjd]

It's in Chapter three of the 1689 London Baptist confession as far as Arbitrary goes. See if you can make sense of it.

The word “arbitrary” is not in Chapter 3 of 1689 London Baptist Confession. However, everything I said about God acting according to His will and purpose is there.

So, your one attempt to quote a source to support your belief that God acts arbitrarily has failed.

I call on you to repent of your false assertion that this belief is “precious” and “held dear” among Protestant churches.

Your honor as a Christian is at stake. If you have God Holy Spirit indwelling, I believe you admit the error and apologize.

peace to you

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning

This thread will be closed No sooner than 8:30 pm EST / 5:30 pm PST

 

[1689Dave]

The word “arbitrary” is not in Chapter 3 of 1689 London Baptist Confession. However, everything I said about God acting according to His will and purpose is there.

So, your one attempt to quote a source to support your belief that God acts arbitrarily has failed.

I call on you to repent of your false assertion that this belief is “precious” and “held dear” among Protestant churches.

Your honor as a Christian is at stake. If you have God Holy Spirit indwelling, I believe you admit the error and apologize.

peace to you

Use your cognitive skills. The entire Chapter 3 is about the arbitrary election of wicked people to salvation. If this won't break you loose, maybe God will recall it to your thinking sometime before you die.

 

[1689Dave]

The word “arbitrary” is not in Chapter 3 of 1689 London Baptist Confession. However, everything I said about God acting according to His will and purpose is there.

So, your one attempt to quote a source to support your belief that God acts arbitrarily has failed.

I call on you to repent of your false assertion that this belief is “precious” and “held dear” among Protestant churches.

Your honor as a Christian is at stake. If you have God Holy Spirit indwelling, I believe you admit the error and apologize.

peace to you

You still have not answered why God saved you. Many can not without showing they believe in salvation by works.

 

[1689Dave]

London Baptist Confession 1689, Chapter III; GOD’S DECREE

3:1 From all eternity God decreed everything that occurs, without reference to anything outside Himself.1 He did this by the perfectly wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably. Yet God did this in such a way that He is neither the author of sin nor has fellowship with any in their sin.2 This decree does not violate the will of the creature or take away the free working or contingency of second causes. On the contrary, these are established by God’s decree.3 In this decree God’s wisdom is displayed in directing all things, and His power and faithfulness are demonstrated in accomplishing His decree.4

3:2 God knows everything that could happen under any given conditions.5 However, His decree of anything is not based on foreseeing it in the future or foreseeing that it would occur under such conditions.6

3:3 By God’s decree, and for the demonstration of His glory, some human beings and angels are predestined (or foreordained) to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace.8 Others are left to live in their sin, leading to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9

3:4 These predestined and foreordained angels and people are individually and unchangeably designated, and their number is so certain and definite that it cannot be either increased or decreased.10

3:5 Those people who are predestined to life were chosen by God before the foundation of the world, according to His eternal and unchangeable purpose and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will. He chose them in Christ for eternal glory, purely as a result of His free grace and love,11 without anything else about them serving as a condition or cause moving Him to do so.12

3:6 Just as God has appointed the elect to glory, so He has by the eternal and completely free purpose of His will foreordained all the means.13 Therefore, those who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ14 and effectually called to faith in Christ by His Spirit working at the appropriate time. They are justified, adopted, sanctified,15 and kept by His power through faith to salvation.16 None but the elect are redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved.17

3:7 The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care so that those heeding the will of God revealed in His Word and obeying Him may be assured of their eternal election by the certainty of their effectual calling.18 In this way this doctrine will give reasons for praise,19 reverence, and admiration of God, as well as humility,20 diligence and rich comfort to all who sincerely obey the gospel.21

Reeves, S. (2012). Confessing the Faith: The 1689 Baptist Confession for the 21st Century (pp. 16–17). Cape Coral, FL: Founders Press.

 

[canadyjd]

Use your cognitive skills. The entire Chapter 3 is about the arbitrary election of wicked people to salvation. If this won't break you loose, maybe God will recall it to your thinking sometime before you die.

The entire chapter is about God acting according to His will and purpose. His choices are not arbitrary and these scholars recognized they were not arbitrary which is why the word arbitrary is not used.

Your attempt to validate your unbiblical belief that God acts arbitrarily by slandering the authors of the 1689 confession has failed. Your attempt to quote even one biblical scholar to support your belief God acts arbitrarily has failed.

I call on you to repent of your unfounded assertion that Protestants held this unbiblical belief that God acts arbitrarily to be “precious” and “dear”.

If you have God Holy Spirit indwelling, He must be grieved by your continuous, unbiblical assertion that God acts arbitrarily in salvation and damnation. Having, therefore, grieved the Holy Spirit, you should repent and ask God for forgiveness, lest He smote you for your continuous rebellion.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

London Baptist Confession 1689, Chapter III; GOD’S DECREE

3:1 From all eternity God decreed everything that occurs, without reference to anything outside Himself.1 He did this by the perfectly wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably. Yet God did this in such a way that He is neither the author of sin nor has fellowship with any in their sin.2 This decree does not violate the will of the creature or take away the free working or contingency of second causes. On the contrary, these are established by God’s decree.3 In this decree God’s wisdom is displayed in directing all things, and His power and faithfulness are demonstrated in accomplishing His decree.4

3:2 God knows everything that could happen under any given conditions.5 However, His decree of anything is not based on foreseeing it in the future or foreseeing that it would occur under such conditions.6

3:3 By God’s decree, and for the demonstration of His glory, some human beings and angels are predestined (or foreordained) to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace.8 Others are left to live in their sin, leading to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9

3:4 These predestined and foreordained angels and people are individually and unchangeably designated, and their number is so certain and definite that it cannot be either increased or decreased.10

3:5 Those people who are predestined to life were chosen by God before the foundation of the world, according to His eternal and unchangeable purpose and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will. He chose them in Christ for eternal glory, purely as a result of His free grace and love,11 without anything else about them serving as a condition or cause moving Him to do so.12

3:6 Just as God has appointed the elect to glory, so He has by the eternal and completely free purpose of His will foreordained all the means.13 Therefore, those who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ14 and effectually called to faith in Christ by His Spirit working at the appropriate time. They are justified, adopted, sanctified,15 and kept by His power through faith to salvation.16 None but the elect are redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved.17

3:7 The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care so that those heeding the will of God revealed in His Word and obeying Him may be assured of their eternal election by the certainty of their effectual calling.18 In this way this doctrine will give reasons for praise,19 reverence, and admiration of God, as well as humility,20 diligence and rich comfort to all who sincerely obey the gospel.21

Reeves, S. (2012). Confessing the Faith: The 1689 Baptist Confession for the 21st Century (pp. 16–17). Cape Coral, FL: Founders Press.

Highlighting the word “arbitrary” would be helpful.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

If you do not think God arbitrarily chose to glorify His mercy in you, what is the reason He saved you?

I do not know why God works differently in the lives of people. That is God's business. I know He does not act arbitrarily because this is vontrary to the nature of God as revealed in Scripture. But I suspect if Hod told me his reasons I still would not understand. I am a man. He is God.

 

[canadyjd]

Keep in mind, Antichrist has ravaged Protestantism. His false teaching is in nearly every "evangelical" church.

Let’s not add your false teaching that God acts arbitrarily in salvation and condemnation to Anti-Christ false teaching.

peace to you

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning

This thread will be closed No sooner than 8:30 pm EST / 5:30 pm PST

This thread is closed