• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Flaws of Calvinism

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
Of course, but I'm not a Calvinist (thank heaven for that eternal decree), so I'm consistent with my theology.
Your point is utterly null brother.
Click to expand...
Yes, you consistently lift man above his station, making him the determiner of his own destiny, one who would be doomed if not for his own capacity to discern truth from fiction and choose truth.
I hope you live a proud and happy life, George.
 
M

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If I am going to err, I will err on the side of God.

I will not err by robbing God of His glory in election
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Yes, you consistently lift man above his station, making him the determiner of his own destiny, one who would be doomed if not for his own capacity to discern truth from fiction and choose truth.
I hope you live a proud and happy life, George.
Click to expand...

Again, please repent of seeking to overthrow the unchangeable decree of God for my life.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Martin Marprelate said:
Van, I and others have explained this verse to you umpteen times, though you could easily look up the meaning of it in any half-decent commentary.
Do you really want me to explain it again?
Click to expand...
Here the ploy of something valid having been presented in the unreferenced past, as an explanation of Matthew 23:13. However, as I recall the claimed effort, it was a falsehood piled on an absurdity.

Here are some of the so-called "explanations."

1) Entering the kingdom does not prove they were seeking God. :)
2) The people were not really entering. :)
3) They were delayed from entering, but sometime later they entered. :)

And here is the obvious truth:
1) Those entering the kingdom were seeking God.
2) Jesus indicates they were in the process of entering, probably referring to putting their faith in their understanding of the gospel. However, false teachers presented falsehoods such that their faith was not credited as righteousness.
3) We should believe what scripture says, not nullify it by inventing an outcome not found in scripture.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aaron said:
:Roflmao
One needs to learn to read the Scriptures.
What does it say, Van?
Click to expand...

Once again a non-answer and deflection. This is all that Calvinists have to defend their false doctrine of no lost person ever seeks God, when scripture has numerous examples.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
DaveXR650 said:
Let's put Calvinism to the test. Van is big on free will. I say he does not have the ability in his free will to complete 5 posts just stating his opinion and not insulting anyone and actually having a meaningful discussion. It is not in his nature.
Click to expand...
Note the content of this post is a gratuitous insult of Van by a Calvinist.
 
DaveXR650

DaveXR650

Well-Known Member
Van. I consider that a compliment. You are the only person on this thread who considers me a Calvinist. But your point is well taken. We dish it out as good as we get.
 
R

RipponRedeaux

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
...by robbing him of his justice and compassion.

ye therefore do greatly err.
Click to expand...
Romans 9:18, which is based on Ex. 33:19 deals with your distortion.
I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom
I have compassion.

There, none of these attributes of the Lord are comprised at all. Everyone deserves his Justice and a remnant, known as the elect receive his Mercy. Perfect.
 
M

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Van said:
Here the ploy of something valid having been presented in the unreferenced past, as an explanation of Matthew 23:13. However, as I recall the claimed effort, it was a falsehood piled on an absurdity.

Here are some of the so-called "explanations."

1) Entering the kingdom does not prove they were seeking God. :)
2) The people were not really entering. :)
3) They were delayed from entering, but sometime later they entered. :)

And here is the obvious truth:
1) Those entering the kingdom were seeking God.
2) Jesus indicates they were in the process of entering, probably referring to putting their faith in their understanding of the gospel. However, false teachers presented falsehoods such that their faith was not credited as righteousness.
3) We should believe what scripture says, not nullify it by inventing an outcome not found in scripture.
Click to expand...
Clearly you do not recall what I have written (several times) on this topic. So here you are again, with a few additions.
Matthew 23:13, KJV. 'But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men..........' Let's pause there for a moment before continuing. Do you really believe that it is possible for anyone to shut up the kingdom of heaven so that no one can enter? Yes or no? If so, that person is God rather than Yahweh. Look at Revelation 3:7. 'These things says He who is holy, He who is true, He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens.' The idea that these scribes and Pharisees can frustrate the plans of Almighty God is ridiculous.
Now let's continue:
'.............For ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.' Again, let's be clear. If these people can stop others entering the kingdom, then whether God 'credits their faith as righteousness' or not, He has been overruled. He is not Almighty God. But lets look at a somewhat similar passage.
Matthew 3:13-14, KJV. 'Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him................' John the Baptist forbade the Lord Jesus Christ to be baptized by him. So Jesus wasn't baptized. Is that right? Of course not! there was no possibility of JTB or anyone else frustrating the will of God the Son. The NKJV puts it better, but in order to convey the correct meaning it has to add some extra words. 'And John tried to prevent Him..........' 'Tried to' is not in the Greek text. But this is what happened with the scribes and Pharisees; they forbade people to come to Christ and did everything in their power to keep them from doing so. But the Lord Jesus Christ is going to build His Church and the very gates of hell will not prevail against it; how much less religious bigots!

When our Lord uttered the word of Matthew 23:13, He probably had an instance in mind. In John 9 we read of a man born blind whom the Lord Jesus healed. The Pharisees interrogated him vigorously, denounced our Lord as a sinner and when they could not dissuade him, they excommunicated him. But all their efforts did no good. He didn't find Jesus; He found him (John 9:35-38).

One other point I need to make. In Mark 5:35-36, Jairus is told that his daughter has died. 'As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, He said to the ruler of the synagogue, "Do not be afraid; only believe." What He did not add was, "But of course, that will only help if the Father credits your faith as righteousness." Van, your Gospel is no Gospel at all. In order to be saved, you require dead people to make themselves alive, blind people to see the truth, deaf people to hear the Gospel, and the lame to come to Jesus in their own strength. But even that may not be enough! God is going to decide whether He will credit their faith as righteousness. It is the very epitome of works salvation. I thank God it isn't true.

'Abraham believed God and it was accounted to Him for righteousness.' But even that faith was a gift to Abraham. 'Your fathers, including Terah, the father of Abraham....... dwelt on the other side of the River in old times; and they served other gods. Then I took your father Abraham from the other side of the River, led him through all the land of Canaan......etc.' God did not wait for an unregenerate Abraham to come to Him, He 'took' Abraham and led him. Everything that Abraham had was a gift from God, including his faith. 'For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you act as if you had not received it?' (1 Corinthians 4:7).
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
DaveXR650 said:
Yes. There are 3 threads running right now with posters flat out saying if you're a Calvinist you have a false gospel. I just wish I could get them to spend a couple of bucks and get John Owen on an electronic reader and just read for themselves everything he said on faith. I am different than a lot of Calvinists in the sense that I think that a person can have genuine saving faith and not fully understand how they came to get it. I do worry though that some of the folks on here who have such a focus on their own choice and free will - if they are not meaning something else by it. A "faith" that is reserving any merit for yourself, even if it is just the fact that you had the good sense to believe could very well be a defective faith.
Click to expand...
You have good intentions but they will attempt to trample over you.
Several try to reason with them...DaveG keeps at it, bends over backwards to be polite, and patient but they attack him like piranha gone wild.
There are non Cals on here who struggle with one or two of the points,but they know the Cals. Back up their posts...so they co exist, and secretly learn from the Cal posts.
So keep trying but do not be naive as some of these posters keep repeating the same errors over and over.
Many of us post for those lurkers who want to read and learn.
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
George Antonios said:
You mean beside making God out to be worse than Satan in arbitrary cruelty and injustice?

It's depravity, not total depravity.
It's conditional (based on faith, not works) election, not unconditional election.
It's unlimited atonement, not limited atonement.
It's resistible grace, not irresistible grace.
It's preservation of the saints, not perseverance of the saints.
Click to expand...
Another blame God for mans sin post
 
R

RipponRedeaux

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
You don't want justice.
Click to expand...
That's for sure. But it looks like those from the opposite isle question God's fairness. C.S. Lewis --no evangelical, much less a Calvinist wrote a book called God In The Dock. People want to put the Lord on the witness stand as a defendant and answer to man. Romans 9:20 and following puts the kibosh to that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top