That refers to physical life and death, not spiritual!
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Flaws of Calvinism
- Thread starter Van
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37818
Well-Known Member
You can believe what ever you want. You still made a false statement.
There is no Biblical Scripture for this.
@37818 wrote:
"The difference between the saved and the lost are whose names remain in the book of life. Revelation 20:15. There is a condition upon which one's name is not removed, Revelation 3:5 and 1 John 5:4-5."
AustinC wrote in response:
Are you saying that all the names of all humanity are written into the Covenant and then, afterward, God starts erasing them out?
@37818, please explain what you are claiming. Am I understanding you correctly? Are all humans written into the Book of Life...until they get erased?
I read the 3 references you gave, without explanation, and I think you may be claiming that all humanity is written in the book of life until God erases them from the book.
"The difference between the saved and the lost are whose names remain in the book of life. Revelation 20:15. There is a condition upon which one's name is not removed, Revelation 3:5 and 1 John 5:4-5."
AustinC wrote in response:
Are you saying that all the names of all humanity are written into the Covenant and then, afterward, God starts erasing them out?
@37818, please explain what you are claiming. Am I understanding you correctly? Are all humans written into the Book of Life...until they get erased?
I read the 3 references you gave, without explanation, and I think you may be claiming that all humanity is written in the book of life until God erases them from the book.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Newsflash, that is the Calvinist position.
37818
Well-Known Member
But the Calvinist position denies "unmerited" election to be the "condition" for the elect. Aka unconditional election.
bump @37818
37818
Well-Known Member
Yes. That is my understanding of the Scriptures on this matter.
Now do you know why I believe the names start out are in the book, being that all mankind are sinners?
37818 wrote:"
The difference between the saved and the lost are whose names remain in the book of life. Revelation 20:15. There is a condition upon which one's name is not removed, Revelation 3:5 and 1 John 5:4-5."
AustinC wrote in response:
Are you saying that all the names of all humanity are written into the Covenant and then, afterward, God starts erasing them out?
@37818, please explain what you are claiming. Am I understanding you correctly? Are all humans written into the Book of Life...until they get erased?
I read the 3 references you gave, without explanation, and I think you may be claiming that all humanity is written in the book of life until God erases them from the book.
37818
Well-Known Member
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I personally do not use the term unconditional election. I use sovereign election.
Since I have never heard your position ever expressed before, I would like you to explain how you come to this.
I do not know how all persons can be born saved (with their names written in the book of life (new covenant) and then God waits to determine if and when he will erase their names from the list so that they are unsaved. Then, the person would have to secure salvation all over again after that.
Calvinism is deeply flawed, being unbiblical and illogical.
Why would people repent if they had seen the miracles of Jesus, if the corruption of the Fall resulted in "total spiritual inability?"
Why would Jesus lay down His life as a ransom for all, if He only died for some?
Why would God choose individuals for salvation through faith in the truth if His choice was unconditional?
How were the people of Matthew 23:13 prevented from entering the kingdom, if the grace needed to enter was irresistible?
Pay no attention to the smokescreed posted by Calvinists, changing the subject away from Calvinism's flaws.
Why would people repent if they had seen the miracles of Jesus, if the corruption of the Fall resulted in "total spiritual inability?"
Why would Jesus lay down His life as a ransom for all, if He only died for some?
Why would God choose individuals for salvation through faith in the truth if His choice was unconditional?
How were the people of Matthew 23:13 prevented from entering the kingdom, if the grace needed to enter was irresistible?
Pay no attention to the smokescreed posted by Calvinists, changing the subject away from Calvinism's flaws.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
1. Illogical based on what?
2. They repent because the Spirit convicted them to repentance and changed their direction.
3. He did ransom all the elect. He did not pay for everyone. THAT is illogical.
4. He did not choose individuals for salvation through faith in the sense that their salvation is based on their faith. Scripture does not state that.
5. You just simply do not understand that verse as we have shown you 1,000 times.
The thread presents the basis of concluding Calvinism is illogical. For example God predestines whatsoever comes to pass but is not the author of sin. Cognitive dissonance anyone.
Jesus said they would repent due to seeing the miracles, not being enabled by irresistible grace.
I said Jesus died as a ransom for all, I did not say Jesus paid for the individual sins of anyone when He died.
Did anyone say salvation results from the individual's faith? Nope
Once again we see misrepresentation offered as a defense of unbiblical and illogical nonsense.
In the 1950's a TV show, "Perry Mason" had an episode where the "witness" did not know what happened, but claimed to know what did not happen. : )
Sounds a lot like Calvinists not knowing what Matthew 23:13 means, but knowing it does not mean what it says...
Sounds a lot like Calvinists not knowing what Matthew 23:13 means, but knowing it does not mean what it says...
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
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