Featured Atonement Continued

This evidence from the early Chruch, shows without any doubt, that the Bible's Teaching on the Death of Jesus Christ, is Penal Substituation. PERIOD!

PSA In The Early Church

 

Jon, it is good to see your continuted threads on PSA, it seems to me that you are not too clear on what you actually believe, as you need to keep on bumping your THEORY!

 

Hey, friends. No reason to beat a dead horse unless you just like the smell of death and the sound of the flies buzzing.

 

Atonement Continued ...
... because at this point we have SO MANY unanswered questions about each other's opinions.

 

I really have to call you on this.
You present a verse that says "Christ suffered" and throw your hands in the air in a shout of victory. The problem with that is that NOBODY is claiming that Christ did not suffer! We are asking for verses that indicate:

1. God PUNISHED Christ.
2. Christ suffered OUR PUNISHMENT from God.

Your bible verses and quotes from Ignatius just don't say that. They say that typically Christ suffered and we are forgiven. That is NOT the same thing. I lean towards Jesus satisfying the JUSTICE of God (as Christ Victorious over sin and death) rather than the WRATH of God. It is not the SUFFERING or OUR SIN that I question ... it is the assumption that God poured OUR PUNISHMENT onto CHRIST when I cannot find actual scripture that clearly teaches this perfectly logical man-made conclusion.

You should not need to "read between the lines" for something that important.

 

This is really funny, considering your recent posts trying to show evidence from early church folks, that wasn’t evidence of PSA theory at all.

AGAIN,

It is the HOW AND WHY the messiah suffered and was cursed NOT that He suffered and was cursed that makes PSA unscriptural.

ANY THEORY that does not acknowledge the suffering and the curse is heretical!

 

The problem with you, Jon, Agedman and the others who deny the Biblcial Teaching of PSA, is that you simply reject out of hand the passage in Isaiah

"Surely he has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded FOR OUR transgressions, he was bruised FOR OUR iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was on him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, each one to his own way; and Jehovah has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and He was afflicted; yet He opened not His mouth. He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter; and as a sheep before its shearers is dumb, so He opened not His mouth...Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he has put him to grief: when you shall make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand" Isaiah 53:4, 5-7, 10)

It is very clear that Jesus Christ is here "SMITTEN of God, and AFFLICTED". No doubt that the "WOUNDED, BRUISED" is also BY the Lord, as is the "BRUISING"

BOTH of your points are seen in this passage. Show that they are not!

 

Is PSA a dead horse?

Nice to see someone proclaim it as such!

 

# 8 answers you and the others.

It is very clear that the early Church, like the Bible, taught PSA. It is only not there for the likes of you, Jon and Atpollard, who don't want to admit that you are WRONG!

 

Untrue, and you know it or are in denial being shown.

“We” (human kind) esteemed him smitten of God and afflicted, BUT …”

The conjunction excludes God, not includes God!

 

מֻכֵּה אֱלֹהִים, is literally, "smitten BY God"

verse 5, "He was crushed FOR OUR iniquities"

verse 10, "Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush Him"

 

Number 8 is verse is NOT PSA theory.

That YOU present that the torture of the Christ was by God and the Scriptures state that it was prophesied to happen by God is the fallacy of PSA.

But, most PSA advocates cannot seem to distinguish the difference and see any verse that is in the Scripture PSA.

Why is it that Psalms 22 that presents the very thoughts of the messiah during the crucifixion does not present God as the brutal victimizer that PSA ascribes Him to be?

Because God wasn't.

 

The words of Paul in Acts 28 come to mind for you are the other opposers of Bible Truth!

Well did the Holy Spirit speak through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers, saying, "Go to this people and say: Hearing you shall hear and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see and not perceive"

I am done with wasting my time.

 

WE ESTEEMED HIM smitten BY God, BUT.

The "but" followed what humankind think.

The PSA thinking never got to the "but" and just grasp at blaming God rather then the vile humans.

Look, there is no need to bring your skill in languages into the posts if you are going to ignore what has been presented.

I once had a professor who when confronted with an issue in which he had no answer and was uncomfortable, would change his level of vocabulary to multi-syllabic words thinking that by impressing us with the grand vocabulary it bolstered his status.

Are you attempting to do the same?

 

You quitting?

I show you the truth and you run?

Why?

You haven't proved PSA is Scriptural.

You haven't shown PSA was taught by the early church.

You haven't even rendered the Scriptures without error, and yet you bluster about my ears and understanding, my lack of perception?

If you run away, how are you following what God told Isaiah?

He said go, so you run?

 

Yep, and other theories teach the same, EXCEPT for the PSA which tries to convince folk that God reached out of heaven and squished the Son.

That God was so incensed with God that He couldn't stand Himself.

That the trinity dissolved in God brutalizing the Son for what God had planned all along.

That fits right in with the Reformed attitude of the 1500's. Let's kill everyone that has taken on sin.

 

Dude it is very clear that you don't even understand what PSA is