Featured Atonement Continued

No. What I have done is rely solely on Scripture. That is why, as much as you object, you cannot produce even one passage that I or @agedman deny.

What we deny is your addition to Scripture. It isn't even a matter of interpretation. You are adding to God's Word.

 

The problem is not termology. The problem is actually adding to Scripture.

 

Penal Substitution Theory adds that God was punishing Jesus instead of us and that Christ experienced God's wrath, for starters.

Can you highlight that in those passages? Of course not.....it isn't there.

 

Yes. I think this is clear. The Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He bore our sins. He is the Propitiation for the sins of the World.

BUT what doesn't that verse say? It does not say God punished Jesus instead of us. It does not say that Christ experienced God's wrath. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement (over any other view).

In fact, you could summarize that by saying Christ's death reconciled man to God and His life reconciles men to God.

There is no way to reconcile Penal Substitution Theory with Scripture because not only is it foreign to Scripture but it also obscures the truth of Scripture (as evidenced by members lack of ability to even recognize that what they saying is not even in the verses they post).

 

Give me a moment, brother. Let's reason together.

Here are the verses you offer:

Isaiah 53:6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.

Isaiah 53:10 But the Lord was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the booty with the strong;
Because He poured out Himself to death,
And was numbered with the transgressors;
Yet He Himself bore the sin of many,
And interceded for the transgressors.

Note what is NOT said.

Nowhere is it said that God punished Christ instead of us.

Nowhere is it said Christ died instead of us.

Nowhere does it speak of soul death, or spiritual death.

Nowhere does it say Christ experienced God's wrath.

Where does all of that stuff come from since obviously not the Bible?

 

I will try to help. Feel free to ask any questions.

For me it is simple.

Adam's transgression introduced sin and death (the wages, or consequences, of sin is death). Mankind was enslaved by sin and death. It is appointed man once to die (physical death) and then the Judgment. This does not change.

Christ shared in our infirmity. He became a curse, He bore our sins, He died. And He was judged by the Father - He was vindicated and raised to glory.

His death reconciled mankind to God. Christ is the "Last Adam", He became a "Life Giving Spirit". All Judgment has been given Him. And in Him there is no condemnation (those "in Him" escape the wrath to come).

Mankind was reconciled to God by Christ's death and men are saved by His life. God is just and the justifier of sinners.

Those in Christ will also die physically, but in Him there is no condemnation (He gives life). Those not in Christ will die and then the Judgment - and this is the Judgment, that Light has come into the world and they rejected the Light.

 

Either translation is fine with me.

Christ made his soul an offering for sin. He bore our sins. God laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.

Christ is the "Last Adam". His death reconciled man to God, and men ate saved through His life. On the criss God was reconciling man to Himself, and we now have the ministry of reconciliation- begging men to be reconciled to God.

My point is Penal Substitution Theory is found nowhere in the Bibke. It is a humanistic theory that fit the worldview of the 16th century and is based on that philosophy rather than the Bible. It starts with secular philosophy, works out a theory, and then goes to Scripture to find "support".

What Christians should do is lay aside their presuppositions and traditions. Go to the Bible, and belueve what is written.

Unfortunately many, like Penal Substitution Theorists, cannot accept the simple truth of Scripture and reach back to the flesh and cinema up with theological systems and theories to "explain" what is plainly before them. They believe Scripture insufficient because it is too simple for them, and they dismiss "what is written" to defend what they believe is taught.