Featured Does God Ordain Everything That Takes Place?

This is a good point too and I didn't mean to ignore it. Generally it is thought that Adam had a free will in a different way than we do now. Your reasoning there is a popular way of looking at it but it is an incorrect leap to say if Adam was created with a free will then we now have the same exact free will. It works if you have a belief system that minimizes or denies the Fall as being an event that directly effects us as people.

 

Ordain does not mean cause to happen. Ordain means to make a decree. You are thinking of pre-ordain. That means it will happen and nothing a human could do, could stop it.

The birth of Jesus, and the day of the Cross was pre-ordained. No human and not even Satan could stop those events from happening. Wars are not pre-ordained nor ordained by God in general.

When God declares a hook is placed in the mouth of a leader, I think that God is referring to how Satan overthinks a situation, and Satan brings about God's Will the same as if God decreed it. We still have Job as our example. God did not pre-ordain nor exactly ordain the nature of Job's troubles. God let Satan choose, and God was still ordaining Satan's choices.

Satan has always been the hook to get humans in trouble. Humans have always been free to handle Satan's hook on their own terms. God allows Satan to act. A slight difference than decreeing Satan to rebel, or decreeing humankind to live wicked sinful lives.

God allows wars, but has also decreed them. When Israel marched around Jericho, and captured that city. When God told Israel to drive out the inhabitants of the promised land. Even much later God decreed the enemies of Israel to wipe out Israel because of Israel's own wickedness. All the way from Assyria to Rome. All done simply because Israel refused to repent and turn to God.


A God ordained war would be to bring an end to sin of His people, or to end sin via His people. His people being Israel herself.

 

This is like asking which came first: God's plan of Salvation, the Atonement, or God creating Satan?

The Atonement came first, then Satan. The Atonement was not a knee jerk reaction from God's foreknowledge of what happened after Satan was created.

But did God purposely create Satan a certain way as a knee jerk reaction to the Atonement that was already planned? No! God created angels with the ability to think and reason, but not the ability to act on that reasoning. God also knew He would also allow Satan certain leeway at certain times.

 

No...He could not have.

 

This statement is clearer.

 

Inconoclast was obviously talking about churches like Hillsong and Elevation. Where the church service is a concert with flashing lights, smoke machines etc. Not what happens Alistair Begg's church. So stop being facetious.

 

Except being an "Author of" is the same as "decreeing". A decree is the letter of authorship. Sin is not really a created "thing". Sin as "entering the world" or "outside the door" is metaphorical of the result of disobedience or rebellion against God's decree ie laws inherent in creation. Even disobedience and rebellion are not created. They are the results of going against God’s creation. Humans are not creating in opposition to God. Nor is opposition to God created by God either. In God's allowance and Sovereign nature God Himself allows disobedience and rebellion, but not as a creation of His creation. "The outcome" is based on knowing something is evil that does go against God’s decreed or ordained creation. So the outcome is not what is decreed. The outcome is God allowing freedom to work in His creation even if that freedom allows for disobedience or evil. Is freedom itself created?

Or did God already have a free will that would never go against God’s own nature, but in creation certainly would. God still created mankind with the freedom to go against God’s very nature. Otherwise there would be no freedom allowed to begin with. While creation was certainly sustained by God, creation itself was not God.

By that fact alone creation would be free to rebel and disobey resulting in choices against God’s very nature.

 

I agree and here is why I do so. I believe the rebellion (sin) of the devil preceded the creation of man in the image of his Creator.

Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through (the) death he might destroy him having the power of (the) death -- that is, the devil -- Heb 2:14

Before the foundation of the world that was going to be the means by which God was going to destroy the devil and his works. That would also save (Redeem) the man created in the image of his Creator.

Also if the first man does not bring sin and the death to man, then, that man, would not need to be redeemed, and the devil could not be destroyed through the death, because the first man brought forth his righteousness through the work of the law; Thou shall not eat of it. However that law was weak because Adam had been created of flesh with the soul of the flesh in the blood. <Rom 8:3 Lev 17:11)

1 John 3:8 he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, (As the children of Adam, flesh and blood) that he may break up (Through, the death) the works of the devil;

We had best let God be God and do the saving according to his will. IMHO


What say ye? Is the above according to the Word or not? Adam did exactly as God created him because of the sin of the devil who needed to be destroyed? ???

 

God foresaw that sin, chose not to prevent it from happening, therefore he determined (not caused) that sin would happen. That there was no possibility of that sin not from happening.

Explain why you disagree, SPECIFICALLY!! Don't just reply with general termsand rhetoric

 

You go to a church with smoke machines and flashing lights, lazers during worship???

 

I never said all Pentecostals churches are heretical. So don't know why you wrote that in reply to me.

 

Their not?

Lack of discernment does not oblige others to agree, rather to make further examination.

 

No....unlike you ,the God I worship always makes the most wise choice.
There is not could have, should have, might have....No, He does exactly what He intends to.