Featured Can one lose their salvation?

First some of the verses that are used. Certainly, not all, but a few.

Paul does state in Philippians 2:12

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.​

And in Galatians 5:4

4You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.​

And further in that same chapter of Galatians 5:

19Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.​

The thinking is that by committing certain sins and not repenting of them is removing the salvation.
The verse:

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (Romans 8:1)​

Is taken to mean that unless you remain "in the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Paul -Galatians 5:16) then you are not remaining "in Christ Jesus."

Some consider it not only sin, but also your hanging onto the Gospel. As 1 Corinthians 15 declares:

1Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.​

They also use Hebrews 3:

6but Christ is faithful over God’s house as a son. And we are his house, if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope.
14For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end. ​

Now, "how isn't this a theology of works righteousness?"

It isn't.

That is, the difference is work because of righteousness is what the Bible teaches (James - 2 "14What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? ... 17So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.")

Faith without works is not redeeming faith.


However, those who teach the possibility of loosing the salvation, place the human work not as evidence but as a qualification to attain and maintain righteousness.

They nearly all present faith as a free will human innate attribute that is empowered by either prevenient (enabling) grace, or has enough ability to get God's attention for examination of their life.

The idea of "sinless perfection" can also be woven into the fabric.

Not necessary for the thread, but a bit of history.
Phoebe Palmer Knapp was one of Fanny Crosby's best friends. They fellowshipped often, and collaborated in writing hymns.
Next time you sing "Blessed Assurance" think of the two of them. They were members of the same church. Phoebe's husband was founder and owner of Metropolitan Life. A company that is still in existence.

Now all that to say, that Phoebe's mother (Phoebe Palmer) was Methodist holiness who believed and taught even considered herself sinless. In fact, this lady became a most influential person who influenced the denominations of the Nazarene churches, the Salvation Army, the Church of God, and the ongoing Holiness movements to this day.

Surprisingly, Albert Finney also engaged in a type of holiness teaching (see the founding of Oberlin) and some historians think that Phoebe Palmer was the inspiration or catalyst for some of his thinking, which directly relates to why Baptist churches have alter calls.

Anyway, hope this is sufficient.

 

I am almost sure every Baptist of any flavor on this board will answer you can't, you can't lose you salvation because of this or that reason, with Scriptures, to boot.
But a Primitive Baptist will FIRST ask you: Do you have eternal salvation in mind ? you know, that salvation spoke of in the Bible where God in eternity purposed to save a people unto Himself and made a covenant with Himself to do just that, wrote their names in His mind (the book of life), became His own Son in the flesh so He can become His own offering in the Person of Christ, on behalf of those He called His people ? That salvation ?

Or is it that other salvation, also told in the Bible, where after God did His work, you, whom He redeemed, are now commanded to repent and turn from your sin to the living God and to save yourself from this (your current) generation, to trust Him in everything you do, to follow Christ in the waters of baptism, fellowship with like-minded believers, be a disciple and grow in grace and the knowledge of your Lord and Savior, to cast all your cares upon Him for He careth for you, to bring forth fruits meet for repentance, and so on, a salvation where you DO something in order to receive something, like, maybe, blessings, spiritual or other forms ? That salvation ?

The former salvation was never your work, it was ALL the work of God on your behalf, everything was His, He supplied the burnt offering (Himself, in His Son), His blood (also through His Son), He supplied the obedient, faithful, living, sin-free, which you can't, He supplied the traitor who is to be His betrayer, He did the dying for you, the suffering for you, the resurrecting for you, He supplied the regeneration, He supplied the faith....so since none of this came from you, you CAN'T lose it.

The latter ? Definitely. Since added to the mix now is YOU. You with the fallen flesh. You're bound to lose trust, even for a while, and in that short while, Satan and this fallen world, and your flesh, can suffocate you, and you lose your salvation (some call it the joy of your salvation but, whatever, the end result is the same)...the blessings of God are withdrawn from you, if, after loving reprimand from your brethren, you harden your neck, then destruction. Take a cue from King David, "the sword shall not depart from thy house", or Deuteronomy 28, addressed to a nation whom He created from one man, Abraham. They are already His nation, not just trying to become His nation.

 

It's funny, but years ago I lived in an area where you mostly were Baptist or Church of Christ. We used to get into big arguments over the condition of a person who turns away from the faith. The Church of Christ people said they lost their salvation, we Baptists said they just never were saved. There weren't any Calvinists around except a small Presbyterian church and they never talked religion in polite company. Now I know that the Calvinist position is that they never were "elect".

"They that will not live Godly lives, find out for themselves that they are not elected; they that will live Godly lives, have found out for themselves that they are elected. So it is here: he that to his utmost endeavors to persevere in ways of obedience , finds out that his obedience and righteousness are true; and he that does not discovers that his is false".
Edwards on "Concerning the Perseverance of the Saints" pg 596 vol. 2

It sometimes seems that the experiential Calvinist position (Edwards and the Puritans) in some ways is close to Arminians in practical Christian living. The modern idea of OSAS taken to the point of godly living being optional is different from both. I don't know.

 

If you believe in freedom of the will, you must logically believe the will can not only accept God's salvation, but also reject God's salvation. The key to retaining it is what you do. Thus, the Nazarene's believe that you can both reach sinless perfection as well as lose your salvation when and if you sin without having repented. They, in my opinion, follow the logic of free will to its obvious conclusions.

Interestingly, a Reformed view can seem similar. While the Reformed believe that God chooses and keeps his children, the Reformed also note that salvation is evidenced in perseverance so that a person should always check oneself to see if they are persevering. This check is the work of faith. The writer to the Hebrews gives this check to believers by warning us not to drift and not to fall away, all the time being confident that we are in the faith.

Thus the Reformed hold a different view from those who teach once saved always saved. This group can be free will or Reformed, but they tend to hinge their security on saying the sinners prayer, which would "seal" them with the Spirit of God and keep them secure no matter the failures and unrepentance of the individual.

 

Zactly. You beat me to it.

 

Primitive Baptists, and perhaps there are others as well, refrain from judging the eternal salvation of others. First, none of us were present in eternity when God elected His people, and wrote their names in His book of Life. We believe it just is not within our jurisdiction. We do judge doctrine, but regardless of the doctrines others hold, their eternal salvation, and their election to glory, is God's jurisdiction. He knows those who are His.

Yes Perseverance is the Calvinist "P" of TULIP.
Our people, on the other hand, hold to " PRESERVATION" ;as in Jude 1.
To put it in perspective, ETERNAL salvation is all of Christ, all of God, and He preserves His people, keeping them pure in Him to present to God.
Perseverance is to TIME or GOSPEL salvation, that salvation which is synergistic, where one works out his own salvation to experience the everlasting life he possesses the experience being the blessings which results in one's obedience and perseverance in the faith, blessings which may be withheld by the Savior, because of disobedience or sin in one's life.

 

Once again, lets go over this dead horse thread.

There are three aspects of salvation, positional sanctification where God places an individual into Christ spiritually, progressive sanctification where, after we have been placed into Christ, we strive to become more Christ-like and serve Him as ambassadors with the ministry of reconciliation, and third, ultimate sanction where we are raised (or changed in the twinkling of an eye) to meet Jesus in the air, the redemption of our physical bodies.

Scripture refers to those positionally sanctified as having been (in the past) saved, and scripture refers to the progressive sanction as being saved in the present, and also refers to our ultimate sanction as our future salvation.

And finally, we can earn rewards, during our progress sanction, by the conduct of effective ministry. However we can loose those possible rewards which is termed a loss of salvation, by back sliding and ineffective ministry.

There is really nothing that needs to be explained as all the above has been explained till the cows come home.

 

This isn't my tribe so I'm not for or against but isn't "time" salvation sort of a controversial off shoot of Primitive Baptists?

 

That is in the assuming the saved can be lost.

But the reality is, there are those professing christians who have left the faith.

And there is the real danger for the yet unsaved who think they are saved.

In the judgement the sole reason people are going to perish, Revelation 20:15, ". . . And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. . . ."

There are points of disagreement we professing beleivers go in circles on this matter, about being in that book.

 

Hebrews 10:29, ". . . Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? . . ."

 

Let us assume (just for the sake of this discussion) that it is possible for a Christian to reach the point where they live without sinning ... a 'sinless life'.

1. NOBODY would ever argue that they had NEVER EVER sinned and, like Jesus, required no savior (so we can discard that strawman).
2. Is there any indication in SCRIPTURE (or anyone actually claiming) that reaching such a state is REQUIRED to "inherit eternal life"?

I, personally, do not believe that sinlessness can be achieved prior to GLORIFICATION. However I do not think that this teaching is quite the "bogeyman" that it is too often portrayed as. After all, God IS making us better than we were when He found us ... so obedience doesn't seem like an absolute impossibility (just an improbability given the drag of our fallen world and old nature).

 

Jesus chose EACH and EVERY Apostle, so the choosing was all of Christ.
Peter chose to deny Christ (and was restored).
Judas chose to betray Christ (and hung from a tree).

The START came from God (100% monergistic).
The FINISH seems to have a synergystic element to it.

[NASB20]

• Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."
• Philippians 2:12-13 "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure."

In both verses ... GOD prepares/is at at work ... and we walk/desire/work. [shrug]

100% monergistic JUSTIFICATION and room for synergystic SANCTIFICATION.

 

Man the weird things that get posted on this board. There is only one salvation according to scripture.