Can one lose their salvation?

[SavedByGrace]

Can you explain the questions that I asked?

I have from the Bible itself. It is all there

 

[5 point Gillinist]

I have from the Bible itself. It is all there

Ah, well in that case I have to. Thanks for playing.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Ah, well in that case I have to. Thanks for playing.

it is all a game to you! Typical

 

[5 point Gillinist]

it is all a game to you! Typical

If you can only answer questions with questions there isn't much point in engaging with you, it's a waste of time and energy.

 

[atpollard]

I am not interested in "theology", but what the Bible says. Now can you explain this passage as well?

Yes, I can.

Now you are free to answer @5 point Gillinist original questions:

• Respectfully, how can one force God to not fulfill His guarantee of salvation upon the giving of the Holy Spirit (2 corinthians 1:22), wouldn't this make God a liar?
  
  
• How can one un-adopt themselves from God?
  
  
• How can one declare the blood of Christ insufficient?
  
  
• How can one un-purchase himself from the salvation which was bought at the cost of Christ's blood and body?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes, I can.

Now you are free to answer @5 point Gillinist original questions:

• Respectfully, how can one force God to not fulfill His guarantee of salvation upon the giving of the Holy Spirit (2 corinthians 1:22), wouldn't this make God a liar?
  
  
• How can one un-adopt themselves from God?
  
  
• How can one declare the blood of Christ insufficient?
  
  
• How can one un-purchase himself from the salvation which was bought at the cost of Christ's blood and body?

2 Timothy 2:11-13
[11]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
[12]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[13]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[atpollard]

2 Timothy 2:11-13
[11]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
[12]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[13]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

It is an unclear answer to the questions (Will Jesus “deny” the backslider or “abideth faithful”?) but a clever application of “scripture only”. Well played.

 

[37818]

There is also some question as to Hebrews 10:29 as to whether the "by which he was sanctified" refers to Christ - John 17:19

Let us look at the two words translated "he" in the text of Hebrews 10:29, Hebrews 10:28-29, ". . . He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, . . ." That one Greek word used here means to be worthy, and is in the future third person singular, so the word "he" is translated.
". . . be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, . . ."
Now the "who" is a definite article and the subject, the one who is doing the trodding. And the "was sanctified" is in and referring to the third person singlar again.

 

[SavedByGrace]

It is an unclear answer to the questions (Will Jesus “deny” the backslider or “abideth faithful”?) but a clever application of “scripture only”. Well played.

The fact is from the passage that a believer can deny the Lord and also end up not believing

 

[atpollard]

The fact is from the passage that a believer can deny the Lord and also end up not believing

Will Jesus “deny” the (‘denying unbelieving christian’) or “abideth faithful”?
… the answer from the quoted verses is “yes, both.”

Can you see the source of confusion?
Can you see the need for better exegesis?

 

[Van]

Once again, lets go over this dead horse thread.

There are three aspects of salvation, positional sanctification where God places an individual into Christ spiritually, progressive sanctification where, after we have been placed into Christ, we strive to become more Christ-like and serve Him as ambassadors with the ministry of reconciliation, and third, ultimate sanction where we are raised (or changed in the twinkling of an eye) to meet Jesus in the air, the redemption of our physical bodies.

Scripture refers to those positionally sanctified as having been (in the past) saved, and scripture refers to the progressive sanction as being saved in the present, and also refers to our ultimate sanction as our future salvation.

And finally, we can earn rewards, during our progressive sancfication, by the conduct of effective ministry. However we can loose those possible rewards which is termed a loss of salvation, by back sliding and ineffective ministry.

There is really nothing that needs to be explained as all the above has been explained till the cows come home.

 

[AustinC]

The fact is from the passage that a believer can deny the Lord and also end up not believing

A Nazarene in our midst.

 

[atpollard]

There are three aspects of salvation, positional sanctification where God places an individual into Christ spiritually, progressive sanctification where, after we have been placed into Christ, we strive to become more Christ-like and serve Him as ambassadors with the ministry of reconciliation, and third, ultimate sanction where we are raised (or changed in the twinkling of an eye) to meet Jesus in the air, the redemption of our physical bodies.

Those are traditionally referred to as

1. “JUSTIFICATION” = being placed in Christ when we are “born from above”.
2. “SANCTIFICATION” = being made more Christ-like as we live
3. “GLORIFICATION” = being made perfect when we die.

As in “and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.” (Romans 8:30) and “And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.” (Romans 12:2) and “Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.” (1 John 3:2).

 

[5 point Gillinist]

Those are traditionally referred to as

1. “JUSTIFICATION” = being placed in Christ when we are “born from above”.
2. “SANCTIFICATION” = being made more Christ-like as we live
3. “GLORIFICATION” = being made perfect when we die.

As in “and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.” (Romans 8:30)

That sounds dangerously close to calvinism!

 

[atpollard]

That sounds dangerously close to calvinism!

Ummm … even Arminians believe they were sinners, God is at work in them to help them live more Christ-like, and we will be “like Him” in heaven. (Maybe a full Pelagian might believe that they were born perfect and planned on spending eternity just like they are, but nobody else should have a problem with the concept of Justification, Sanctification and Glorification - just argue the details.)

• Justification = you were once lost but are now are found.
  
  
• Sanctification = you are becoming more Christ-like.
  
  
• Glorification = we will be perfect in heaven.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

Ummm … even Arminians believe they were sinners, God is at work in them to help them live more Christ-like, and we will be “like Him” in heaven. (Maybe a full Pelagian might believe that they were born perfect and planned on spending eternity just like they are, but nobody else should have a problem with the concept of Justification, Sanctification and Glorification - just argue the details.)

• Justification = you were once lost but are now are found.
  
  
• Sanctification = you are becoming more Christ-like.
  
  
• Glorification = we will be perfect in heaven.

It was a joke in reference to Romans 8:28, and the individual you were responding to.

 

[atpollard]

It was a joke in reference to Romans 8:28, and the individual you were responding to.

Sorry,
I am so accustomed to people attacking Calvinism that I am just hard wired to defend biblical truths whenever I think someone might be talking smack about Calvinism.

 

[kyredneck]

can you explain the very strong language used in the passage in Hebrews chapter 10?

Yes. Do you know who the intended audience of Hebrews was? Do you know of the awful judgement from God that came upon said audience?

22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21

 

[Van]

Those are traditionally referred to as

1. “JUSTIFICATION” = being placed in Christ when we are “born from above”.
2. “SANCTIFICATION” = being made more Christ-like as we live
3. “GLORIFICATION” = being made perfect when we die.

As in “and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.” (Romans 8:30) and “And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.” (Romans 12:2) and “Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.” (1 John 3:2).

No traditionally, as I identified the traditional view.

Your misinterpretation of Romans 8 has been addressed before. I know someone has taught you disinformation, so take no offense, but loss of salvation support in scripture can only be found in passages addressing loss of rewards of salvation.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes. Do you know who the intended audience of Hebrews was? Do you know of the awful judgement from God that came upon said audience?

22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21

whether Hebrews was written for Jewish believers, or all believers, the fact remains, that it is written for ALL. The language is clearly is for every Christian, as warnings