1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Calvinism is Internally Inconsistent

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Guido, Mar 24, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 5 of 11
  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,315
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Has anyone ever prayed for some beneficial thing to happen in the future. Those prayers presuppose the future is not entirely fixed, and God can providentially alter the future for the benefit of believers. However, Calvinism says everything (whatsoever comes to pass) has been predestined and thus no alternate outcome is even possible. The more you consider Calvinism, the more false doctrines become evident.
     
    #81 Van, Mar 26, 2022
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Notice how you keep running after boogeymen and never to scripture.
    This is why the topic title is a boogeyman in itself.
    You are running to your textbooks and abandoning scripture. Such is the common outcome of those who abandon God's word for books that claim to reveal God via their human thinking. Jon, you are running down the rabbit hole. Don't follow Alice.
     
    #82 AustinC, Mar 26, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,315
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "Pray it does not happen in winter." That is what Jesus said. If the time had been fixed why seek a more tolerable time?
     
    #83 Van, Mar 26, 2022
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Where do I find this verse that says things happen by chance. I am waiting for that prooftext, Van.
     
    #84 AustinC, Mar 26, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Notice how you keep running after Van and never to Scripture.

    You are running to your theology books, your theories, but never to the Bible.

    This is the common result of those who abandon God's word for books and philosophies that claim to reveal God via their human thinking.

    Austin, you are running down the rabbit hole. You are being carried away by vain philosophies.
     
    #85 JonC, Mar 26, 2022
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Also....you guys can't provide verses saying what you believe.

    Just accept that Scripture teaches things happen by chance. :Wink
     
    #86 JonC, Mar 26, 2022
  7. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,075
    Likes Received:
    541
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do not know enough about the different types of calvinism but why would one type not have contradictions and another type would?
     
    #87 Silverhair, Mar 26, 2022
  8. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,075
    Likes Received:
    541
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So would you say that general calvinism is close to the bible or not? Just trying to get a sense of this thing. If it is not against the rules could you state who on BB you think would would fit into those types of calvinism. Or perhaps some of the calvinists could say where they land on the calvinist spectrum.
     
    #88 Silverhair, Mar 26, 2022
  9. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,075
    Likes Received:
    541
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well stop the whining and tell us where you stand on the calvinist spectrum
     
    #89 Silverhair, Mar 26, 2022
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I was a Calvinist. No, it is not close to the Bible. It is a Christian philosophy.

    Historic Calvinism is closer to the Presbyterian Church. Arminianism existed within Calvinism as an "orthodox but extreme" view. Arminianism was later declared unorthodox.

    On this board Calvinism typically refers to the 5 points of Calvinism, which is an attempt to articulate redemption not through Christ but through the sovereignty of the Father sending Christ to redeem man.

    Men are totally depraved (not as evil as possible but unable to turn to God or do good in His sight).

    The Father chose people to save. These are the elect. Calvinists disagree on the logical order (where in time election occurrs)occurs.

    God sent His Son to die for only the elect. The reason is Calvinism holds a particular moral philosophy- a just system is obligated to punish criminal actions (this independent of the criminal). God must punish sins. For God to forgive sinners He must punish the sins committed.

    God's grace towards the elect will overcome their disbelief.

    The elect will be saved and nothing can remove them from God's hand.
     
    #90 JonC, Mar 26, 2022
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I see I touched a trigger point.
     
    #91 AustinC, Mar 26, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,075
    Likes Received:
    541
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Have you taken the time to read those texts that say just that or do you just skip over the parts you do not like. Your just proving the point about calvinism, it is full of contradictions.
     
    #92 Silverhair, Mar 26, 2022
  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What is the spectrum?
    I am much like @Dave G. I believe in the Supremacy of God and His election of the saints precisely because the Bible says this is correct.
    What spectrum is that, Silverhair?

    Now for that verse that says the world and universe is going along by chance...
     
    #93 AustinC, Mar 26, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,836
    Likes Received:
    2,478
    Faith:
    Baptist
    High Calvinism does not make the compromises that make Calvinism more attractive in it's lower forms.
     
    #94 Reynolds, Mar 26, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,075
    Likes Received:
    541
    Faith:
    Baptist
    From what I have heard and read, calvinism does not work that well with the bible. Tnks for the info.
     
    #95 Silverhair, Mar 26, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you think ordain and predestine are synonyms theologically in the way you try to make them, you do not know what you are talking about as usual.
     
    #96 Reformed1689, Mar 26, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yea. High Calvinists are real men with real beards who smoke cigars and pipes. They look you in the eye and say "Scripture??? We don't need no stinking Scripture!!".

    Low Calvinists have shorter beards and vape. They try to prop their philosophy with Scripture.

    :Biggrin
     
    #97 JonC, Mar 26, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I did not realize you were trying to touch me in my trigger point. But don't worry, you didn't.

    I've been here 20 years. I am accustomed to your klan posting nonsense when they run out of answers to justify their philosophy.
     
    #98 JonC, Mar 26, 2022
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jon, just about anything that goes against your Jonnyism is a trigger point for you.
     
    #99 AustinC, Mar 26, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,633
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not at all. I enjoy discussing Scripture and opposing views. But you and a few others cannot do this. You want an echo chamber and Crack when members do not submit to your ideas.

    Most of the time it is because of an inability to defend a position. A guy hears a Calvinistic message or reads a book and decides he will become a disciple of Reformed teachers.

    The reason you are unable to defend your faith is because you hold other people's belief. Rather than working out your faith via Scripture you have followed men who tickle your ears.

    Once you are able then we can talk about Scripture. Many here disagree with me, but they are more mature (spiritually) and can discuss (and defend) their faith.
     
    #100 JonC, Mar 26, 2022
Page 5 of 11
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...