Spiritual Truth and Doctrine

[Iconoclast]

The best that I can make out of this ganglion of words is that Jon is denying, or at the very least marginalizing, the existence and/or importance of objective truth in favor of a 'truth' that is somehow higher according to the degree of civility people show to one another.

In other words, error can be truth as long as we're friendly about it.

Yes...like Austin you see right past the outward veneer and you also have captured the very essence.

 

[JonC]

Yes...like Austin you see right past the outward veneer and you also have captured the very essence.

Veneer?

What you two are talking about "jettisoning" are God's words because you think they read "like a quote right out of the new age movement".

Spiritual truth is the combination of spiritual words with spiritual thoughts.

Honestly, Jon, your first sentence reads like a quote right out of the new age movement. It's a bunch of words with absolutely no substance. I would jettison such an argument as it defines nothing and leaves everything up to mere feelings.

Yes. new age thought.Well put.

 

[Iconoclast]

@AustinC and @Iconoclast


How is my saying "Spiritual truth combines spiritual words with spiritual thoughts" using "New Age movement terms" when that is what is written in Scripture???

He said your words, not scripture.can you ever be honest when making a claim.

 

[Iconoclast]

Veneer?

What you two are talking about "jettisoning" are God's words because you think they read "like a quote right out of the new age movement".

It was your words, not scripture.

 

[JonC]

It was your words, not scripture.

I understand. You reject that spiritual truth is spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts. You do not believe this to be biblical but instead is "new age thought".



1 Corinthians 2:12–14 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

 

[Aaron]

No. Just the defining behavior of Christians.

Scripture tells us that the fruit tells us something of the tree. Does the tree bear good or bad fruit.

Scripture lists those things you seem to denounce as being fruits of the Spirit, and those things you seem to appreciate as fruits of the flesh.

It is not about being saved from the cross but the traits that mark those who have died to the flesh and are made alive in Christ.

In you threads on atonement, you made it clear that to you the Cross has nothing to do with the atonement. Jesus was simply a martyr. His death doesn't save us, you said. You said His 'vindication' does. That God was so moved that He simply forgives the sins of those who are also moved by the martyrdom of Christ.

Now, in line with your worldly wisdom, which despises the Cross, you assert here that one can embrace error, and that as long as he acts a certain way, he really is in the truth.

 

[JonC]

@Aaron,

I made it clear that the cross....not only that Christ died but his manner of death....has everything to do with the Atonement

What I said was that having been reconciled by Christ's death we shall be saved by His life with Scripture.

You and @Iconoclast reject that idea because it does not suit your theology

But you have failed to address my belief that having been reconciled by Christ's death we shall be saved by His life with Scripture.

Romans 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

 

[Aaron]

@Aaron,

I made it clear that the cross....not only that Christ died but his manner of death....has everything to do with the Atonement

What I said was that having been reconciled by Christ's death we shall be saved by His life with Scripture.

You and @Iconoclast reject that idea because it does not suit your theology

But you have failed to address my belief that having been reconciled by Christ's death we shall be saved by His life with Scripture.

Romans 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Yes, yes, yes. When pressed you spout the jargon, but you mean something else. You made it clear 'we aren't even in the picture' in His death. We do not identify with His death, only in His 'vindication,' as you understand it.

My (JonC) view of the Atonement

 

[JonC]

Yes, yes, yes. When pressed you spout the jargon, but you mean something else. You made it clear 'we aren't even in the picture' in His death. We do not identify with His death, only in His 'vindication,' as you understand it.

My (JonC) view of the Atonement

No. I mean exactly what I say.

Christ had to suffer and die, not only that but the means of death had the a Roman cross.

How is that saying the cross has nothing to do with Atonement? That is actually your position (God chose the cross, but anywhere He could punish Christ would have worked in your philosophy).

 

[JesusFan]

I don't know, do you consider baptism a core doctrine?

A secondary issue, unless one holds to either baptismal regeneration or required to get saved, and that makes it a heresy!

 

[JesusFan]

What are you talking about.....New Age terms???

"
You think that we are given of "God's Spirit" is a New Age term???

This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit.1 John 4:13

As a Christian you should know this is in the Bible.

Again, there is no spiritual truth apart from one having correct biblical doctrines, as the bible itself is the truth from God to us!

 

[JesusFan]

The best that I can make out of this ganglion of words is that Jon is denying, or at the very least marginalizing, the existence and/or importance of objective truth in favor of a 'truth' that is somehow higher according to the degree of civility people show to one another.

In other words, error can be truth as long as we're friendly about it.

Or perhaps he is emphasizing unity over spiritual doctrines?

 

[JesusFan]

Words do not become spiritual truth.

Look at John Owen. Did he demonstrate spiritual truth? What about the doctrines he held which were false?

We are taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

Are not the words of scriptures all spiritual truths, are not correct doctrines spiritual truths?

 

[JesusFan]

No. Just the defining behavior of Christians.

Scripture tells us that the fruit tells us something of the tree. Does the tree bear good or bad fruit.

Scripture lists those things you seem to denounce as being fruits of the Spirit, and those things you seem to appreciate as fruits of the flesh.

It is not about being saved from the cross but the traits that mark those who have died to the flesh and are made alive in Christ.

Unless one has correct doctrines though, will not have real spiritual truth!

 

[JesusFan]

No. I mean exactly what I say.

Christ had to suffer and die, not only that but the means of death had the a Roman cross.

How is that saying the cross has nothing to do with Atonement? That is actually your position (God chose the cross, but anywhere He could punish Christ would have worked in your philosophy).

Jesus death per your view is neither the reformed nor the standard Baptist view!

 

[JesusFan]

I understand. You reject that spiritual truth is spiritual words combined with spiritual thoughts. You do not believe this to be biblical but instead is "new age thought".



1 Corinthians 2:12–14 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

We reject that one can have any spiritual truth apart from having the correct doctrines of the scriptures!

 

[JesusFan]

@Aaron,

I made it clear that the cross....not only that Christ died but his manner of death....has everything to do with the Atonement

What I said was that having been reconciled by Christ's death we shall be saved by His life with Scripture.

You and @Iconoclast reject that idea because it does not suit your theology

But you have failed to address my belief that having been reconciled by Christ's death we shall be saved by His life with Scripture.

Romans 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

How were our sins atoned and paid for? Do you hold that God the father can simple forgive and justify us due to Him not feeling like it, as Jesus death as a good man changed His mind towards us?

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes, yes, yes. When pressed you spout the jargon, but you mean something else. You made it clear 'we aren't even in the picture' in His death. We do not identify with His death, only in His 'vindication,' as you understand it.

My (JonC) view of the Atonement

Yes, yes, yes. When pressed you spout the jargon, but you mean something else.

Yes you have captured it once again, like a polaroid.

We are all seeing the same pattern, of course we are all wrong,lol

 

[Alan Gross]

Unless one holds to correct doctrines, there can be no spiritual truth!

"SPIRITUALITY" within the bounds of "THE TRUTH".

How about that?

 

[Revmitchell]

I know men who believe that spiritual truth is the understanding or acceptance of doctrine. Scripture, however, seems to indicate otherwise - that the truth of Scripture and the work of the Spirit leads us to spiritual knowledge which is something other than, deeper than, and even more important than simple biblical doctrine.

I have seen Christians with poor theology possess more spiritual truth than seminary professors.

Spiritual truth is how brethern can be united in Christ, refrain from judging the servant of Another.

We see spiritual truth in the godly interactions of mature Christians conversing and debating the different views they hold without resorting to insults...even when they strongly disagree over doctrine.

Spiritual truth transcends doctrine. Spiritual truth transcends doctrinal error. Spiritual thoughts must be combined with Spiritual words.

We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. 1 Cor 2:13.

So what is "spiritual truth"?

Has to be one of the most asinine posts on this board. Anyone who engages this nonsense should have their head examined.