The Gospel in Six Minutes

[kyredneck]

We disagree.

K.

 

[37818]

Yes it has - Matthew 24:34, it began before that generation passed away and is still ongoing as long as His messengers are preaching the gospel.

Wow. That is not a correct understanding. And since that is your view, it is not likely that you even know to understand my view to refute it. That means you need to first explain my intepertation back to me. Then if you understand my view. Your refutation might even be possible. It has to do with the use of the plural "you."

 

[KenH]

That is an interpretation. The written word of God nowhere states it that way. Nowhere.

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (emphasis mine)

 

[KenH]

Claiming the interpertation is not quoting anything. Please quote the scripture. You cannot quote what does not exist. Saying, "Yes it does." Is not quoting anything

Romans 10:13-15 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

 

[Mathetes66]

You asked, "Why did the prophets and the apostles and the apostle Paul & Jesus Himself command people to repent and believe if they were incapable of repenting and believing."

"Responsibility presupposes accountability, but accountability does not presuppose ability or freedom. Rather, accountability presupposes one who demands accountability. Since God demands accountability – since he will reward righteousness and punish wickedness – man is accountable. Since God is sovereign, he decides what he wants to decide, and whether man has free will or not has no logical place in the discussion.

Instead of initially giving a Scriptural answer, you give humanistic reasoning as if that will convince anybody. 'Responsibility PRESUPPOSES accountability but accountability does not presuppose ability or freedom.' WHO SAYS SO? Only you.

A person can be responsible without being accountable & they can make choices & have the freedom to do so. Unbelievers can be moved with compassion to help people suffering from a disaster like a flood or earthquake. They are responsible (not accountable) & meet needs because they have compassion to help others & not for personal gain. They have the freedom to choose to give or not give to those in need & choose to do so. No one is demanding accountability. It is not presupposed. This is the ILLOGICAL nature of your humanistic reasoning.

I Cor 2:1-5; 1:17 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God...my speech & my preaching WERE NOT WITH PERSUASIVE WORD OF HUMAN WISDOM, but in demonstration of the Spirit & of power, so that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God...For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, NOT IN CLEVERNESS OF SPEECH, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

In Acts 10,11 & 15, Cornelius is a great example.

Acts 10:1-8 In Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius...a very religious man. He worshiped God & so did everyone... in his house. He had given alms to the poor & was always praying to God.

One afternoon...Cornelius had a vision...saw an angel...calling him by name...“What is this about, lord?” The angel answered, “God has heard your prayers & knows about your alms. Now send some men to Joppa for a man named Simon Peter...Cornelius called in 2 of his servants & one of his soldiers who worshiped God. He explained everything to them & sent them off to Joppa.

Cornelius was a religious devout Gentile Roman soldier...who worshiped the Jewish God as well as his household, including servants & soldiers under his command. He regularly gave gifts to the poor...prayed to God. God saw his sincere heart, knew of his alms & had heard his prayers, even though this man was NOT yet saved. (see Acts 11:13,14)

Now no one forced this Centurion to do these things. He choose to do them & taught his household to do the same. Were those in his household saved yet? No. How do I know this? Because Scripture REPEATEDLY tells us he & his household weren't saved UNTIL they heard Peter preach the gospel (faith comes by hearing & hearing by the word of God) & believed. Had they been regenerated & baptized in the Spirit? No. How do we know? Because Scripture repeatedly tells us!

Acts 10:21,22 So Peter went down to the men & said...Why have you come?”And they said, “Cornelius...a just man, one who fears God & has a good reputation among all the Jewish nation, was divinely instructed by a holy angel to summon you to his house & to hear words from you.”

Acts 10:24-28 The following day he arrived in Caesarea, where Cornelius was expecting them & had called together his relatives & close friends. As Peter was about to enter, Cornelius met him & fell at his feet to worship him. But Peter helped him up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.” ...He said to them, You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean. 29Therefore I came without objection as soon as I was sent for...For what reason have you sent for me?”

Peter learned that God shows no partiality & makes no distinction between Jew & Gentile but desires all men to be saved & to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Acts 11:12-18 Then the Spirit told me to go with them...6 brethren accompanied me & we entered the man’s house. And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, ‘Send men to Joppa & call for Simon...who will tell you words BY WHICH YOU & ALL YOUR HOUSEHOLD WILL BE SAVED.’ And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, AS UPON US, at the beginning...Then I remembered...‘John indeed baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ If therefore God gave them THE SAME GIFT as He gave us WHEN WE BELIEVED ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, who was I that I could withstand God?” ...They became silent & glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

Cornelius & his household & friends were NOT SAVED until Peter came & preached the gospel to them. Peter stated they were given the same gift of regeneration by the baptism of the Holy Spirit as the Jews had WHEN they believed. Granting someone repentance simply means they were given the ability to make a decision to repent. God did not repent for them. Scripture never says that. God did not believe for them. Scripture never says that. God is not partial. God makes no distinction between Jew & Gentile in desiring all to be saved. However, not all are saved & that is because of unbelief. It has always been that way since the beginning.

Romans 10:8-16 “The word is near you, in your mouth & in your heart” (that is, THE WORD OF FAITH WHICH WE PREACH): ...For WITH THE HEART one believes unto righteousness & with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Scripture says, “WHOEVER believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is NO DISTINCTION between Jew & Greek, for the same Lord--OVER ALL is rich TO ALL--WHO CALL UPON HIM. ...“WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILLL BE SAVED.”

14HOW then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? HOW will they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? HOW will they hear without a preacher? HOW will they preach unless...sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, who bring glad tidings of good things!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel.

Getting back, Peter makes this even more confirmed in Acts 15.

Peter rose & said: “Men & brethren, you know a while ago God chose among us,...by my mouth the Gentiles SHOULD HEAR THE WORD OF THE GOSPEL & BELIEVE. So God, WHO KNOWS THE HEART, BORE WITNESS TO THEM by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us--& MADE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN US & THEM-- purifying their hearts BY FAITH. Now therefore, why do you test God...But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ WE WILL BE SAVED IN THE SAME MANNER AS THEY.”

God acknowledged & bore witness to all the Jews, that these Gentile people believed in Jesus & were saved & received the gift of the Holy Spirit's baptism & regeneration just as they had done. They were saved by grace through faith, just as the Jews are & as a result of their faith in Jesus Christ were regenerated & given eternal life. God made no distinction. Anyone, whoever they may be, can be saved by grace through faith & then be regenerated & given eternal life.

There is that CONTINUOUS, verse after verse, testimony after testimony, in both OT & NT, that anyone, anywhere can be saved by faith in Christ. God knows their sincerity of heart, bears witness to their repentance & faith in Christ & as a result baptizes them in the Holy Spirit as a gift. Some will supress the truth in their unrighteousness & harden their hearts & choose to disbelieve. It has been that way ever since the beginning. The man crippled from birth is another example.

Actrs 14:7-10 And they were PREACHING THE GOSPEL THERE. And in Lystra a certain man without strength in his feet was sitting, a cripple from his mother’s womb, who had never walked. This man HEARD Paul speaking. Paul, observing him intently & SEEING THAT HE HAD FAITH TO BE HEALED, said with a loud voice, “Stand up straight on your feet!” And he leaped & walked!

Paul saw from the Lord that THIS MAN HAD FAITH TO BE HEALED. The man had faith to believe. He had the ability to belief AFTER listening to Paul & hearing the gospel message to believe in Christ. 'Fatith comes by hearing & hearing by the word of God, the preaching of Christ.' Jesus also said this repeatedly!

Mark 5:25-34 Now a certain woman had a flow of blood for 12 years & had suffered many things from many physicians. ...When she HEARD ABOUT JESUS, SHE CAME behind Him in the crowd..."If only I may touch His clothes, I will be made well.” Immediately the fountain of her blood was dried up...He looked around to see her who had done this thing. But the woman, fearing & trembling, knowing what had happened to her, came & fell down before Him & told Him the whole truth...He said...“Daughter, YOUR FAITH HAS MADE YOU WELL. Go in peace & be healed...”

Matt 8:13 Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! AS YOU HAVE BELIEVED, SO IT WILL BE DONE FOR YOU." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matt 9:28-30 After Jesus had entered the house, the blind men came to Him. “DO YOU BELIEVE that I am able to do this?” He ASKED. “Yes, Lord,” they answered. Then he touched their eyes & said, “ACCORDING TO YOUR FAITH let it be done to you." And their eyes were opened.

 

[Mathetes66]

(cont')
Matt 15:25-28 The woman came & knelt before Him. “Lord, help me!” she said. He answered, “It isn’t right to take the children’s bread & throw it to their dogs." Yes, Lord,” she said, “even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” “O woman,” Jesus answered, “YOUR FAITH IS GREAT! Let it be done for you as you desire.” Her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Luke 7:36-50 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him...Behold, a woman in the city WHO WAS A SINNER, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil & stood at His feet behind Him WEEPING--washing His feet WITH HER TEARS & wiped them with her hair...kissed His feet & anointed them with the fragrant oil. When the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he SPOKE TO HIMSELF, saying, “This Man, if He were a prophet, would know who & what manner of woman THIS is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner.”

Jesus ANSWERED & said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” So he said, “Teacher, say it.” [notice Jesus answered the man's inner thoughts] “There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed 500 denarii & the other 50. When they had nothing to repay, he FREELY FORGAVE THEM BOTH. Tell Me...which of them will love him more?” Simon answered...“I suppose the one whom he forgave more.”

He said... “You have rightly judged.” He turned to the woman & said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me NO water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears & wiped them with her hair. You gave Me NO kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. You did NOT anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. Therefore I say to you, her sins, which ARE many, are forgiven, BECAUSE SHE LOVED MUCH. But to whom little is forgiven, THE SAME LOVES LITTLE.”

Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” Then He said to the woman, “YOUR FAITH HAS SAVED YOU. Go in peace.”

This woman had sorrow for her sins (weeping) according to the will of God. (2 Cor 7:10 For sorrow according to the will of God produces repentance LEADING TO salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.) This sorrow led her to come to Jesus, despite the scorn & rejection she might receive from others. This choice she made. She made the choice to clean Jesus' dirty feet with her hair, kiss his feet & anoint Him with oil, when she may have observed that the Pharisee had done NONE of these things, showing Jesus great disrespect & a lack of love as his guest. Her display of great love for Jesus & serving Him, showed her repentence from her many sins. It was HER FAITH that saved her.

God may convict us of our sins & unbelief by the Spirit, but it is we who respond with genuine sorrow over them. God may grant repentance, giving us the ability to choose to repent, but God does not repent for us. And as Jesus & the apostles have so abundantly shown (many more examples can be shown in Scripture IN CONTEXT, not isolating verses out of their context to make an eisogetical pretext for humanistic reasoning), a person's personal faith in Him is what saves them, God extending grace because He knows the genuineness of their heart.

 

[atpollard]

so when the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is Almighty God, in the Days of His Flesh on earth, proclaims, at the start of His Ministry, "and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; REPENT and BELIEVE in the gospel.” (Mark 1:15), He is wrong?

No, Jesus was correct. So, too, was Jesus when he said the words in John 6:44. One cannot accept one verse and deny another … both are true.

“Who has believed our message” remains an important question to be answered (and why do some believe and others not believe the exact same ‘perfect’ word of God).

 

[37818]

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (emphasis mine)

So you actually use these references to lead a person to belief? How does one know being amoung the called one is elect? It is true all the elect are called, but not all the called are elect ( Matthew 22:14).

 

[KenH]

@Mathetes66 @37818

You and others who oppose the gospel of the free grace of God in Christ Jesus can rest in your "free-will" decision or have faith in your faith or your baptism or whatever other man-centered conditions you place upon other people. I rest in Christ and His finished work on my behalf and His taking upon Himself my sins having been imputed to Him and His perfect righteousness having been imputed to me.

 

[37818]

Romans 10:13-15 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

So I understand a general redemption is offered. Why not? If not, one cannot know one is included.

 

[KenH]

@Mathetes66 @37818

No one truly repents or truly believes unless God regenerates them, replaces their stony heart with a heart of flesh. Man cannot do this, only God can. Psalms 118:23 This is the LORD's doing; It is marvellous in our eyes.

 

[37818]

You and others who oppose the gospel of the free gra.ce of God in Christ Jesus can rest in your "free-will" decision or have faith in your faith or . . . .

You have resorted to false accusation. Salvation is only by God's grace through faith. You really do not understand where you and I disagree. I believe only in a free grace. We believe the same Scriptures. We unfortunately have some different understsandings.

 

[37818]

No one truly repents or truly believes unless God regenerates them, replaces their stony heart with a heart of flesh. Man cannot do this, only God can. Psalms 118:23 This is the LORD's doing; It is marvellous in our eyes.

And you had cited Romans 10:13-15. Where faith precedes regeneration. We believe the same Scriptures, but understand them differently.

 

[KenH]

And you had cited Romans 10:13-15. Where faith precedes regeneration.

Nope. That is a common teaching among the false religions of this day and age.

John Gill explains it quite well:

"For whosoever shall call upon the name the Lord,....

This testimony is taken out of Joel 2:32 and is brought to prove the truth of what the apostle had just suggested, that all that call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, will find him rich and plenteous in mercy, and ready to dispense his grace and salvation to them: such

shall be saved;

be they who they will, whether Jews or Gentiles; not with a temporal salvation only, but with a spiritual and eternal one; for the words of the prophet refer to Gospel times, as the context shows, and is cited and applied thereunto by the Apostle Peter, Acts 2:16; besides, the deliverance and salvation Joel speaks of, is of a "remnant whom the Lord shall call", Joel 2:32; and designs the remnant according to the election of grace, whether among Jews or Gentiles, whom God calls by his efficacious grace; between which call and eternal glory, there is a certain and inseparable connection."

- Gill's Bible Commentary

Further, the efficacious grace mentioned by Gill is also described in this wonderful hymn by Joseph Irons, where the work of God is described as "Grace". Notice the words I highlighted and Who is performing the action. Nothing about the creature contributing one iota to his salvation. None!

"Efficacious Grace"

1. Arise my soul and sing,
In sweet harmonious sound,
The praise of Christ, our God and King,
Whose sov'reign grace abounds.

2. His grace beheld my state,
And undertook my cause;
Grace unexampled, rich and great,
My soul to Jesus draws.

3. Grace paid my dreadful debt,
And took away my chains;
Through grace I daily pardon get;
And grace within me reigns.

4. Grace stopp'd my roving feet:
Bid me repent and pray;
And grace will its own work complete,
Nor let me fall away.

5. Grace made the Saviour known,
And purifies my heart;
Grace will conduct me to his throne,
And endless life impart.

6. Free grace from first to last,
Redemption's scheme displays;
Grace ever holds its subjects fast,
And shall have all the praise.

 

[KenH]

You really do not understand where you and I disagree.

Probably not. So much of false Christianity erroneously adds to the finished work of Christ - man's faith, or man's baptism, or man's repentance, or man having to do this and that in order to remain saved or urging a mercenary form of Christianity for some "rewards" besides Christ as the Christian's reward. Difference churches and individuals add various things to the finished work of Christ, they reject the Biblical doctrine of imputation, they reject the preservation that God performs for His elect and fail to understand that any good works that Christians do is all determined by the absolute sovereign will of God for His glory, not man's glory.

So, no, I probably don't know which specific things you add to the finished work of Christ for what you think is regeneration and perseverance.

 

[37818]

Nope. That is a common teaching among the false religions of this day and age.

Nowhere in the Bible does word of God teach regeneration before faith. Romans 10:13-15 explicitly teaches faith before regeneration aka salvation.

 

[KenH]

Nowhere in the Bible does word of God teach regeneration before faith. Romans 10:13-15 explicitly teaches faith before regeneration aka salvation.

Nope. John Gill already disproved your false teaching using the Word of God.

 

[37818]

So, no, I probably don't know which specific things you add to the finished work of Christ . . . .

This accusation is untenable. Do you believe the words of Christ as found in the gospel according to John? John 6:47-48, ". . . Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. . . ."

 

[37818]

Nope. John Gill already disproved your false teaching using the Word of God.

What false teaching? There is absolutely no Scripture that teaches regeneration precedes faith.

 

[KenH]

Nowhere in the Bible does word of God teach regeneration before faith. Romans 10:13-15 explicitly teaches faith before regeneration aka salvation.

John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (emphasis mine)

Notice the highlighted word - were. Past tense. Something that takes place before the believing in the previous phrase. The Word does not say "which are born", it says "which were born."

Ephesians 2:1-7 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Notice who is doing the action - it is God, not the creature. God quickened(mentioned twice). God raised. God made. God shows.

Everything mentioned that is done by man is horrible. Man is spiritually dead. Dead in Adam. Dead in his own iniquity. Unable to raise a finger to help himself, and certainly not able to believe of himself.