Featured Born Dead

Does this poster think the "Spirit" is being sanctified when he uses the phrase "sanctification of the Spirit?" Who knows?

How about sanctification by the Spirit, referring to the Spirit's action in setting apart believers with righteous faith?

Does 2 Thessalonians describe His choice of individuals for salvation as being accomplished "through" sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth? Yes. Obviously the Spirit sets apart those individuals whose faith has been credited by God as righteous faith. There is absolutely no mystery.

 

Why do you suppose this poster thinks knew the future? Is this his crystal ball theology? When did Abraham read Genesis? When was Genesis written by Moses, before or after Abraham had lived? So when did Abraham learn an offspring of Eve would harm Satan? Or does Alan think Abraham had read Daniel and Issiah?

 

Why do you misrepresent the truth?
Folks, obfuscation on display.

BTW, is faith limited to Christ or must our faith be in God and His Christ? What does scripture say? Or did Alan leave God out of faith? Do we really need to believe in the One who sent Christ?

 

Yet another material false statement that will not be challenged by those charged with protecting truth.

Will this prevaricator be required to provide a quote where I said what I never said?

Did I say God pats them on the back? Nope I said all their works of righteousness is as filthy rags to God. Would God pat someone on the back for presenting a filthy rag? This is Alan's claim.

Did I say God gives them righteousness,or did I say credits their faith as righteous faith?

The wholesale allowance of falsehood is a problem for the ministry of Christ.

 

Some may question the idea that being dead in sin refers to being separated from God and completely unable, as if dead, to do anything to cause oneself to be united with God.

However as fallen individuals, all our works of righteousness, are as filthy rags to God. Additionally Isaiah 64:6 indicates our sins have "taken us away" which of course would result in "separation."

And then, on the other side of the ledger, scripture teaches we are "made alive" together with Christ.

Colossians 2:13
And although you were dead by reason of your wrongdoings and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings,​

Now again some claim while "dead/separated" the lost are unable to hear or grasp God's revelation. However, once again scripture teaches otherwise:

John 5:25
“Truly, truly, I say to you, a time is coming and even now has arrived, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.​

Therefore, the concept that those "dead in sin" have no capacity to respond to the gospel is unbiblical.

 

Yet another non responsive post. Again, for the umpteenth time, through faith means existing faith was utilized to bestow God's grace, therefore as Romans 5:1-2 says our faith provides our access to the grace in which we stand. It is a lock.

 

Good grief, now through faith is a mistranslation, the actual meaning is through grace. Got it...

And did I "ascribe [faith] to human action [yes] as being meritoriously righteous act..." Nope, I said quote "all our works of righteousness, are as filthy rags to God" in posts #2 and 45.

 

The "conceived in iniquity" concept teaches we are conceived in a separated from God state. United with God we are “alive” and separated from God we are “dead.” When Adam sinned and was corrupted, he was separated from God. Thus all in Adam are separated from God and therefore dead at conception. When God puts us spiritually in Christ, we are made alive together with Christ.

Now lets look at some arguments against the doctrine that as a consequence of Adam’s sin, mankind is conceived in a spiritually dead, separated from God state, and is born corrupted with the “old man” nature, referring to Adam’s nature after his eyes were opened.

Romans 7:9 "For I was alive without the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

If we are born dead in sins, how could Paul say he was ever alive once? And how could he die if he was born dead?

This verse is certainly difficult with differing views presented in commentaries. I believe Paul was saying he thought he was alive, not knowing that he was condemned, but when he became aware of the requirement of perfection, he “died” in that he became aware he was dead because unforgiven sin requires separation per Isaiah 59:2. This view is supported contextually with Romans 7:13. The law did not become death, but sin was shown to be death through the Law. Sin becoming utterly sinful speaks to awareness because sin is always utterly sinful from God’s perspective.

In summary, Romans 7:9 does not teach we were alive at conception, but rather we did not know we were dead. This view is consistent with being conceived in iniquity, and therefore separated from our holy God.

In the parable of the prodigal son, the illustration starts with the son being together with the Father, hence alive, then he chooses to sin and leaves the Father, becoming separated and hence dead, and then he returns to the Father on his own power, becoming alive again. Now can we say that everyone starts out alive or does everyone start out condemned already according to John 3:18? We start out condemned, and separated because if we were together with Christ we would be alive and not condemned.

I agree we can establish doctrine supported by parables but we must be careful not to take the illustration past its purpose. In this parable, the son starts out alive, but since this facet of the story does not mesh with all the verses that say because of Adam, we start out “in Adam” and not “in Christ,” that part of the stories’ detail does not override all the verses presenting that we are conceived in iniquity. For example Romans 5:19 says we were "made sinners."

The other two illustrations of Luke 15, the lost sheep and the lost coin, tell the story of something belonging to the owner. Who is our owner? God. But because of the consequence of the Fall of Adam, mankind is conceived in a separated state, hence lost. When someone is united with Christ, they are recovered, found, redeemed, transferred from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of God. Next note that the 99 sheep are not really united with the Father, for they are in need of repentance. So the lost sheep actually represents a lost person who repents, which is consistent with being condemned already. The 10 coin parable makes the same point, the “owner” rejoices over the recovery of the one who repents.

In summary, both Romans 7 and Luke 15 are consistent with the Fall.

Next lets consider 1 Peter 2:25: The people in view, were continually straying which refers to the fact they were continually sinning. A lost separated person can continue to sin and store up wrath for himself or herself. The word returned might better be translated turn back, which describes a person who is going the wrong way, i.e. sinning, and then turning back toward the One who leads them in paths of righteousness. So again, no actual support for denial of the consequence of the Fall.

Everyone is created by God, and thus everyone is a “child of God” in the sense that God is our creator. But to say these children of God cannot be condemned and be children of wrath makes no sense. Next, God chose the nation of Israel to be His people, so in another sense, the believing children of the promise were “children of God.” And now, under the New Covenant, all those chosen by God and spiritually placed in Christ are born anew, becoming “children of God” in the third sense. So when we see the phrase, children of God, or sons of God, we must look to the context to see which of the three ways the phrase is being used.

As far as 1 Corinthians 15:22, the death referred to with “in Adam all die” simply refers to the fact everyone in sinful Adam is necessarily separated from our holy God.

 

LOL, through refers to by way of something being utilized. Please stop redefining words. Use a lexicon and learn.

 

LOL, now we have a rewrite of the meaning of "dead."

Recall John 5:25? That verse teacfhes those spiritually, not physically dead, hear the message of redemption.

Falselogy must redefine word after word to pour the bogus views into scripture. Adoption, Dead, Regeneration, Predestination,
Through, etc.

 

How many times will this poster be allowed to misrepresent me willfully?

Does salvation depend on the person who wills to be saved? Nope. So what is there to boast about.
Does our works of righteousness such as putting our fiath in Christ result in earning our salvation? Nope, all our works of righteousness while dead in our sin, are as filthy rags to God.