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To What Degree do you believe a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?

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AustinC

Well-Known Member
I have no problem with the gift of salvation. It is not clear to me the reason or reasons you would think I would.

Romans 1:16, ". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . ."

1 Corinthians 15:1-4, ". . . the gospel . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . "

1 John 5:1, ". . . Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . ."
Do people believe by their own choice? If you say yes, then how do you reconcile what you stated earlier when you wrote:
"Iet's be clear here, the lost do not in any way assist God in their salvation. If anything the lost hinder their salvation."

The Bible tells us we believe because God made us alive even when we were dead in our trespasses and sins.

Do you see how each of your quoted sentences support my position on salvation?
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
You ignoring what the scripture is saying. According to Isaiah 45:17 who is promised Salvation in the Lord ?

So you ignore all the scripture I posted and stick to your universalism. No wonder you have a problem with scripture. It seems that the truths of scripture fly right over your head.

Try to understand these verses this time. Just ignoring them does not make them go away.

Who is salvation for?

Mat_18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.
Joh_12:47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
1Co_1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1Ti_1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
Heb_7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

So are only the elect, lost ungodly sinners? Your philosophy is, to say the least, flawed.

You keep denying that salvation is for all even when the bible proves it.

1Ti_2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Calvinism is a nightmare. So I try to avoid those type of dreams. But it seems you enjoy them. Still avoiding scripture I see.
You don't even grasp Calvinism so for you it is a fantasy of your own making. You just make it a crutch so you can keep clinging to your man-centered philosophy of salvation.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
You don't even grasp Calvinism so for you it is a fantasy of your own making. You just make it a crutch so you can keep clinging to your man-centered philosophy of salvation.

One thing I can always count on from you Austin, denial of scripture as the source of truth. You along with a few other determined individuals on here will stand by your errant theology in the face of any truth form the bible.

"Do not study the Bible in order to support what you believe,
rather study in order to learn what you need to believe."
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 9 am EDT / 6 am PDT
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
So you ignore all the scripture I posted and stick to your universalism. No wonder you have a problem with scripture. It seems that the truths of scripture fly right over your head.

Try to understand these verses this time. Just ignoring them does not make them go away.

Who is salvation for?

Mat_18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.
Joh_12:47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
1Co_1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1Ti_1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
Heb_7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

So are only the elect, lost ungodly sinners? Your philosophy is, to say the least, flawed.

You keep denying that salvation is for all even when the bible proves it.

1Ti_2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
Looks like to me, you ignoring scripture. Who is promised to be saved in the Lord here ? Salvation is based on promise, Faith believes Gods promise Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Israel here is Gods elect, not just jews.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Looks like to me, you ignoring scripture. Who is promised to be saved in the Lord here ? Salvation is based on promise, Faith believes Gods promise Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Israel here is Gods elect, not just jews.

I agree those that are saved are saved according to Gods' promise. And He has said those that are found "in Christ" will be saved. And to be found in Christ Jesus one has to trust in the Son.

But are you not the one that ignores all those other scriptures that I posted. The ones that tell us who Christ came to save, who He dies for, who He is a ransom for? Are they different from Israel?

Look at them again but this time with out the Calvinist bias.

Who is salvation for?

Mat_18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.
Joh_12:47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
1Co_1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1Ti_1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
Heb_7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

So are only the elect, lost ungodly sinners? Your philosophy is, to say the least, flawed.

You keep denying that salvation is for all even when the bible proves it.

1Ti_2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Yes Israel will be saved, those that trust in the Son, the same as Gentiles that trust in the Son will be saved. But that is the key thing, they have to freely trust in the Son.

"Do not study the Bible in order to support what you believe,
rather study the Bible in order to learn what you need to believe."
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
I agree those that are saved are saved according to Gods' promise. And He has said those that are found "in Christ" will be saved. And to be found in Christ Jesus one has to trust in the Son.

But are you not the one that ignores all those other scriptures that I posted. The ones that tell us who Christ came to save, who He dies for, who He is a ransom for? Are they different from Israel?

Look at them again but this time with out the Calvinist bias.

Who is salvation for?

Mat_18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.
Joh_12:47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
1Co_1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1Ti_1:15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
Heb_7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

So are only the elect, lost ungodly sinners? Your philosophy is, to say the least, flawed.

You keep denying that salvation is for all even when the bible proves it.

1Ti_2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Yes Israel will be saved, those that trust in the Son, the same as Gentiles that trust in the Son will be saved. But that is the key thing, they have to freely trust in the Son.

"Do not study the Bible in order to support what you believe,
rather study the Bible in order to learn what you need to believe."
Well Who does God promise to save here ? Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Who was Jesus raised a Saviour to according to promise ? Acts 13:23

23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
 

37818

Well-Known Member
I don't see what that has to do with this issue. It seems you are simply trying to evade the contradiction in your view.
Does truth have nothing to do with the issue? Like I suggested, you evidently do not understand epistemology.

ADMIN NOTE (since I just closed this)
"Epistemology (from Ancient Greek ἐπιστήμη 'knowledge', and -logy), or the theory of knowledge, is the branch of philosophy concerned with knowledge. Epistemologists study the nature, origin, and scope of knowledge, epistemic justification, the rationality of belief, and various related issues. Epistemology is considered a major subfield of philosophy, along with other major subfields such as ethic..."
 
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