Whosoever - John 3:16

[Salty]

Found this on FB:
"It’s only in English, and it’s been abused. The Greek John wrote simply says “the one believing”. It doesn’t imply some grand offer that’s on the table to take or walk away from. In fact, there is no offer on the table, God commands mankind to repent and believe."

So should "whosoever" remain in 3:16 or what
First I ever heard about this.

 

[Ziggy]

The phrase is πας ο πιστεύων, in the singular. It is more literally rendered as "everyone who [is] believing."

 

[kyredneck]

John 3:16 is a statement of fact, not an invitation.

 

[Silverhair]

John 3:16 is a statement of fact, not an invitation.

Actually it is both.

 

[Van]

Yes, "every" one-believing into Him describes those who will not perish.
Every is simply a translation of "pas" which means "all" of those contextually in view.
And those contextually in view are the "ones believing into Him."

Some mistakenly think it refers to the ones believing and is not further restricted to those going "into Him.

I do not recall very many if any posters agreeing that it is God who decides whose faith will result in God placing the person "into" Christ. It is like a denial of the obvious.

 

[Reformed1689]

Found this on FB:
"It’s only in English, and it’s been abused. The Greek John wrote simply says “the one believing”. It doesn’t imply some grand offer that’s on the table to take or walk away from. In fact, there is no offer on the table, God commands mankind to repent and believe."

So should "whosoever" remain in 3:16 or what
First I ever heard about this.

Whoever should remain, and people should learn what that word does and does not mean. The statement is correct, this is not an offer of salvation. It is a statement of fact that the ones who will believe are the ones who will be saved, or, more accurately, have already been predestined to salvation.

 

[Van]

If we hear "everyone believing into Him will not perish" we might think we have been offered an opportunity to believe in Him.
Now some deny this, but the denial if ludicrous.

 

[AustinC]

Where do we actually find the words that say "believing into Him?"
I cannot recall one English translation of the Bible that uses such a phrase.

 

[Marooncat79]

Where do we actually find the words that say "believing into Him?"
I cannot recall one English translation of the Bible that uses such a phrase.

austin, you are confusing us with facts

 

[kyredneck]

If we hear "everyone believing into Him will not perish" we might think we have been offered an opportunity to believe in Him.
Now some deny this, but the denial if ludicrous.

lu·di·crous
[ˈlo͞odəkrəs]
ADJECTIVE

1. so foolish, unreasonable, or out of place as to be amusing; ridiculous:
   "it's ludicrous that I have been fined" · "every night he wore a ludicrous outfit"

Van's version of the scripture is ludicrous.

 

[kyredneck]

John 3:16 is a statement of fact, not an invitation.

Actually it is both.

This is an invitation:

28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Mt 11

This is a statement of fact:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jn 3

 

[37818]

Context ". . . And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. . . ."
The cross reference of it being an invitation, from Numbers 21:8-9, ". . . when he looketh upon it, shall live. . . ."

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Some mistakenly think it refers to the ones believing and is not further restricted to those going "into Him.

I do not recall very many if any posters agreeing that it is God who decides whose faith will result in God placing the person "into" Christ. It is like a denial of the obvious.

Acts 16:31. 'So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."' Two questions for you, Van.
1. Were Paul and Silas lying to this man? Should they have added, "So long as God credits your faith as righteous"?
2. What difference do you think it makes that the preposition used is epi, 'on', rather that eis,'into'?

 

[kyredneck]

The cross reference of it being an invitation, from Numbers 21:8-9, ". . .

Wrong. In the type, not all had the need to look upon the brazen serpent.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up;
15 that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. Jn 3

8 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a standard: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he seeth it, shall live. Nu 21

The brazen serpent was lifted up for those that were bitten. Those NOT bitten had no need to go to the brazen serpent.

.........They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners. Mk 2:17

6 Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Mt 5

It is the Spirit working within His children that causes them to feel their need for the Savior.

 

[Silverhair]

Where do we actually find the words that say "believing into Him?"
I cannot recall one English translation of the Bible that uses such a phrase.

G1519
εἰς
eis
Thayer Definition:
1) into, unto, to, towards, for, among
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary preposition

While it is a different way of expressing what the verse says the use of "into" is supported.

See also The Complete Word Study Dictionary
G1519
εἰς
eis; prep. governing the acc. with the primary idea of motion into any place or thing; also of motion or direction to, toward or upon any place, thing.

I would say that the use of "in"rather than "into" would be more the editors choice for ease of reading.

 

[Silverhair]

This is an invitation:

28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Mt 11

This is a statement of fact:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jn 3

KY you are unable to see the forest for the trees. The verse is a factual statement, God loves the world and sent His son so that anyone that believe in Him will not die but live forever.

But it is also an invitation, God who loves the world sent His son, if you believe in Him you will not die but instead will live forever.

I find it amazing how those that do not want man to be able to trust in God for salvation will deny clear scripture.

 

[Silverhair]

Wrong. In the type, not all had the need to look upon the brazen serpent.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up;
15 that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. Jn 3

8 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a standard: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he seeth it, shall live. Nu 21

The brazen serpent was lifted up for those that were bitten. Those NOT bitten had no need to go to the brazen serpent.

.........They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners. Mk 2:17

6 Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Mt 5

It is the Spirit working within His children that causes them to feel their need for the Savior.

And what do you think this verse means
Joh 16:8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Are you going to say that this was only meant for those that were in and around Jerusalem, are they the only ones that sin?

Or perhaps it is just the "elect" that this was meant for? But if it's the elect then why do these saved ones need to be convicted of their sin?

 

[AustinC]

I like Bill Mounce on this verse as he breaks down the Greek. Clearly @Van is incorrect in his translation. But, Mounce also tells us that John is not emphasizing or even speaking to election in this verse.

My Greek Verse of the Day is a screencast vlog that I will be doing weekly at first. I will take a well-known Bible verse, read it, translate it, and then phrase it. Finally, I will include some comments about its meaning or significance. In John 3:16 I will be talking about the meaning of οὕτως, and that it can’t mean “so much” as in the traditional translations. I will also talk about the πᾶς and the fact that it is indefinite. The promises of John 3:16 are available to each and every person (πᾶς) in the entire world (κόσμος) who does in fact believe. There is no inherent limitation in the “all” (“whosoever,” KJV); the limitation is in the modifying clause.
Greek Verse of the Week: John 3:16 | billmounce.com

 

[37818]

I like Bill Mounce on this verse as he breaks down the Greek. Clearly @Van is incorrect in his translation. But, Mounce also tells us that John is not emphasizing or even speaking to election in this verse.

My Greek Verse of the Day is a screencast vlog that I will be doing weekly at first. I will take a well-known Bible verse, read it, translate it, and then phrase it. Finally, I will include some comments about its meaning or significance. In John 3:16 I will be talking about the meaning of οὕτως, and that it can’t mean “so much” as in the traditional translations. I will also talk about the πᾶς and the fact that it is indefinite. The promises of John 3:16 are available to each and every person (πᾶς) in the entire world (κόσμος) who does in fact believe. There is no inherent limitation in the “all” (“whosoever,” KJV); the limitation is in the modifying clause.
Greek Verse of the Week: John 3:16 | billmounce.com

The subjects of the verse are God and everyone who believes.
What does John 3:16 mean? | GotQuestions.org

 

[AustinC]

The subjects of the verse are God and everyone who believes.
What does John 3:16 mean? | GotQuestions.org

GotQuestions is not going to be my source of scholarship here.