The Doctrine of Election in a Nutshell

[JD731]

The instruction we read in Mark 16: 15-16 is given to the apostles of Jesus Christ. Here is what he told them to do just before he ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of The Father on his throne, where he is now.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

From that day and for the next 35 years the history is recorded in the book of Acts. I have to ask myself, how did the apostles understand Jesus Christ when he said that to them? Can I make a determination by reading about what they did? I think so. What did they do? Well, they preached the gospel for the next 7 years, from Acts 2-7 to no one but to the house of Israel. They did exactly what Jesus told them to do, beginning 10 days after his ascension to heaven and his sending the Holy Spirit to Israel in such abundance that he called it a baptism, meaning Israel was immersed with the Holy Ghost. But, he was on the outside and he must be on the inside of Israel. So, Peter, in the beginning, called on Israel to repent (a sinner will not believe without repenting and he will not repent without believing). So, After Peter preached his first sermon in this present age and after the Holy Ghost was sent to Israel, they, the men of Judah, asked him a question in Acts 2:37, what must we do, and it should not be a surprise to anyone when he told them the exact thing That Jesus told them 10 days earlier. Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ and ye shall receive the Holy Ghost. Receiving the Holy Ghost on the inside is salvation and although Israel is now immersed in the Holy Ghost, he is on the outside, but it is the responsibility of individual Israelites to believe and obey the gospel they were given and receive the Holy ghost at their baptism.

I am not sure why this logical progression of history and the obedience of the apostles is not noted and accepted by modern Christianity. The "principle" upon which the Holy Ghost is given to Israel is based upon the "promise" of God to give him to them and to write his laws upon their hearts as a collective. (see Jer 31:31-34). Later, when the door of faith is opened to the gentiles, because Israel as a people rejected the promise and insisted on remaining under the law of Moses for righteousness, God did not require baptism in water but faith only. Why the difference? Because he had made no promises or no covenants of promise to gentiles and therefore he dealt with us under a different principle. The principle is "grace."

It was the grace of God, after the rejection of his promise by his people, that he included us to fulfill his purpose in this age. Now, to those readers who are familiar with the ministry of Jesus Christ to Israel in the gospels, you will understand that he as a prophet foretold us of the events that would unfold in this age after his resurrection. But I am going to quote a couple of passages to you to help you put things into perspective and help you with this election doctrine.

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

God will not establish his physical kingdom on earth until every one going into that kingdom is saved. Because Israel rejected his promise he established a spiritual kingdom and built his house with gentiles.

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

I bet some will be able to make the application.

This parable spoken 1 week before the crucifixion.
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:
11 I say then, Have they (Israel) stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (until the house is full)

This purpose of God in this age is prophesied in parables of our Lord after the Jews decided to put him to death. The election of gentiles and Jews together as one would be "in Christ" and is the mystery of Christ in this age. There are more parables that gives s light on this truth.

 

[AustinC]

The instruction we read in Mark 16: 15-16 is given to the apostles of Jesus Christ. Here is what he told them to do just before he ascended to heaven to sit on the right hand of The Father on his throne, where he is now.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

From that day and for the next 35 years the history is recorded in the book of Acts. I have to ask myself, how did the apostles understand Jesus Christ when he said that to them? Can I make a determination by reading about what they did? I think so. What did they do? Well, they preached the gospel for the next 7 years, from Acts 2-7 to no one but to the house of Israel. They did exactly what Jesus told them to do, beginning 10 days after his ascension to heaven and his sending the Holy Spirit to Israel in such abundance that he called it a baptism, meaning Israel was immersed with the Holy Ghost. But, he was on the outside and he must be on the inside of Israel. So, Peter, in the beginning, called on Israel to repent (a sinner will not believe without repenting and he will not repent without believing). So, After Peter preached his first sermon in this present age and after the Holy Ghost was sent to Israel, they, the men of Judah, asked him a question in Acts 2:37, what must we do, and it should not be a surprise to anyone when he told them the exact thing That Jesus told them 10 days earlier. Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ and ye shall receive the Holy Ghost. Receiving the Holy Ghost on the inside is salvation and although Israel is now immersed in the Holy Ghost, he is on the outside, but it is the responsibility of individual Israelites to believe and obey the gospel they were given and receive the Holy ghost at their baptism.

I am not sure why this logical progression of history and the obedience of the apostles is not noted and accepted by modern Christianity. The "principle" upon which the Holy Ghost is given to Israel is based upon the "promise" of God to give him to them and to write his laws upon their hearts as a collective. (see Jer 31:31-34). Later, when the door of faith is opened to the gentiles, because Israel as a people rejected the promise and insisted on remaining under the law of Moses for righteousness, God did not require baptism in water but faith only. Why the difference? Because he had made no promises or no covenants of promise to gentiles and therefore he dealt with us under a different principle. The principle is "grace."

It was the grace of God, after the rejection of his promise by his people, that he included us to fulfill his purpose in this age. Now, to those readers who are familiar with the ministry of Jesus Christ to Israel in the gospels, you will understand that he as a prophet foretold us of the events that would unfold in this age after his resurrection. But I am going to quote a couple of passages to you to help you put things into perspective and help you with this election doctrine.

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

God will not establish his physical kingdom on earth until every one going into that kingdom is saved. Because Israel rejected his promise he established a spiritual kingdom and built his house with gentiles.

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

I bet some will be able to make the application.

This parable spoken 1 week before the crucifixion.
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:
11 I say then, Have they (Israel) stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (until the house is full)

This purpose of God in this age is prophesied in parables of our Lord after the Jews decided to put him to death. The election of gentiles and Jews together as one would be "in Christ" and is the mystery of Christ in this age. There are more parables that gives s light on this truth.

Was Adam a Jew? How about Noah? Was Abraham a Jew? Were all these people redeemed by faith in the Promised One who would justify them?

Romans 2:28-29

For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

The constant attempt to force God into different "ages" when God never changes is bizarre. God has always justified by faith alone, not by works of the law. If you don't accept this then you essentially have to throw out all the epistles and ignore them.

 

[37818]

Was Abraham a Jew?

Abraham was a Hebrew.

 

[Silverhair]

" Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 grace [be] to you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ." ( Ephesians 1:1-2 ).

Did you read where Paul addresses all believers, " ...and to the faithful in Christ Jesus"?
Is not the context precisely where it ought to be...focused on all those who are the faithful in Christ Jesus?:

" Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." ( Ephesians 1:3-6 ).

Please read the above again, keeping in mind who the entire letter is addressed to...

To the saints at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus.

I am well aware that the letter was written to believers in Ephesus and in other churches that the letter would be sent to and that it does apply to all those that will, in the future, trust in Christ Jesus for salvation.
When Paul wrote the letter in 60-62 AD it was to encourage those believers that were under persecution and to remind them of their future in Christ and what their walk should be like now.
Those blessings were only available to those that freely trusted in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 1:13-14. We are saved now {experience the first fruits of the Spirit}
We will be adopted latter {be like Christ} Romans 8:23

 

[AustinC]

Abraham was a Hebrew.

No, Abraham was an Urite. Those who came from Jacob were Hebrews. If you were correct then Esau's family would also be Hebrews, but they weren't.

 

[JD731]

Was Adam a Jew? How about Noah? Was Abraham a Jew? Were all these people redeemed by faith in the Promised One who would justify them?

Romans 2:28-29

For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

The constant attempt to force God into different "ages" when God never changes is bizarre. God has always justified by faith alone, not by works of the law. If you don't accept this then you essentially have to throw out all the epistles and ignore them.

Where do you think I got the word "ages?" If you ignore the words of scriptures you can have it saying anything you want it to say. You want it to say God had some sort of special affinity to you that he had for very few others on this planet. You are deceived and you are attempting to deceive others.

Was Adam a Jew? How about Noah? Was Abraham a Jew? Were all these people redeemed by faith in the Promised One who would justify them?

No, but our Lord Jesus was.

You have completely ignored my previous argument. You do not want to learn, it seems.

 

[37818]

No, Abraham was an Urite. Those who came from Jacob were Hebrews. If you were correct then Esau's family would also be Hebrews, but they weren't.

Genesis 14:13, ". . . Abram the Hebrew; . . ."

 

[AustinC]

Genesis 14:13, ". . . Abram the Hebrew; . . ."

I stand corrected.
I will revise my statement and say he was not an Israelite.

 

[AustinC]

I stand corrected.
I will revise my statement and say he was not an Israelite.

Looking at what Hebrew means I find:
"The word Hebrew comes from the verb (עבר) meaning to pass over, through, take away."

I also find:
"one from the other side," in reference to the River Euphrates, or perhaps simply signifying "immigrant;" from 'ebher "region on the other or opposite side."

So Hebrew is a general term for someone who came from the other side of the river and is not specific to the Israelites themselves.

 

[AustinC]

Where do you think I got the word "ages?" If you ignore the words of scriptures you can have it saying anything you want it to say. You want it to say God had some sort of special affinity to you that he had for very few others on this planet. You are deceived and you are attempting to deceive others.




No, but our Lord Jesus was.

You have completely ignored my previous argument. You do not want to learn, it seems.

Ages, in the Bible does not mean God saved people through different means at different times. That disjointed teaching is not supported in the Bible.
I note that you have no scripture to support the various ages theory you promote.
Moreso, you took the straight-forward teaching of election in the Bible and you made it a convoluted jumble and mess. How did you even do that?

 

[JD731]

Ages, in the Bible does not mean God saved people through different means at different times. That disjointed teaching is not supported in the Bible.
I note that you have no scripture to support the various ages theory you promote.
Moreso, you took the straight-forward teaching of election in the Bible and you made it a convoluted jumble and mess. How did you even do that?

God saves sinners under the new covenant. Salvation comes after God justifies a sinner. God justifies any sinner and all sinners who believes what he says to them. Justification is by faith in God, what he says, in any and all ages. Today, sinners who are justified are saved because salvation is defined by having one's sins washed away by the blood of Christ and the Spirit of Life, the Holy Ghost, given to them as his gift to indwell their bodies WHEN THEY BELIEVE. It is the blood that washes away the sin.

Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

As a for instance. The disciple of Jesus Christ were justified men before the cross and resurrection but none of them believed Jesus Christ would die and then rise from the dead. When he did, none of them believed it and the women did not go to the tomb because they wanted to watch him rise from the dead, but to anoint his dead body.

What they did believe is what was required they believe about Jesus Christ. What was that? They must believe that he is the Son of God.

Matt 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.


Jn 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

What did they believe about his resurrection?

Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

You, AustinC, are believing wrong things and are following the wrong men who are teaching you wrong things. You are not believing the words of the scriptures in their context.

There is much to know and the Lord will teach us if we will believe him.

Today, sinners must believe the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ to be saved. The "gospel" is the power of God unto salvation. It will come when we believe.

 

[AustinC]

God saves sinners under the new covenant. Salvation comes after God justifies a sinner. God justifies any sinner and all sinners who believes what he says to them. Justification is by faith in God, what he says, in any and all ages.

God saved sinners the same way under the old covenant. They were not saved by their continual sacrifice no more than a Roman Catholic is saved by their continual receiving of the sacraments. All have been saved by grace and justified by faith.

Today, sinners who are justified are saved because salvation is defined by having one's sins washed away by the blood of Christ and the Spirit of Life, the Holy Ghost, given to them as his gift to indwell their bodies WHEN THEY BELIEVE. It is the blood that washes away the sin.

Dead men don't believe on their own. Ephesians 2:4-5 starts with these words, "But God..." God is the sole cause of our belief and no other, not you nor me, has ever assisted Him.

Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Solely Jesus alone

Hebrews 9:22

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Solely Jesus alone.

As a for instance. The disciple of Jesus Christ were justified men before the cross and resurrection but none of them believed Jesus Christ would die and then rise from the dead. When he did, none of them believed it and the women did not go to the tomb because they wanted to watch him rise from the dead, but to anoint his dead body.

These men were in a juxtaposition. They were like the saints of old, looking forward to the Promised One and they are like us, looking back on the redemptive work of the one that had been promised.

What they did believe is what was required they believe about Jesus Christ. What was that? They must believe that he is the Son of God.

They were to believe the promises of God, that the Promised Redeemer had come. This is by faith. They were justified by faith alone.

Matt 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Great dialogue with the disciples.

In John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Faith

What did they believe about his resurrection?

At the time they didn't understand that Jesus death was the ransom that Hosea had prophesied.
*Hosea 3:1-5*
And the Lord said to me, “Go again, love a woman who is loved by another man and is an adulteress, even as the Lord loves the children of Israel, though they turn to other gods and love cakes of raisins.” So I bought her for fifteen shekels of silver and a homer and a lethech of barley. And I said to her, “You must dwell as mine for many days. You shall not play the whore, or belong to another man; so will I also be to you.” For the children of Israel shall dwell many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or pillar, without ephod or household gods. Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the Lord their God, and David their king, and they shall come in fear to the Lord and to his goodness in the latter days.

Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Peter came to understand the ransom:
*1 Peter 1:17-21*

And if you call on him as Father who judges impartially according to each one’s deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile, knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

You, AustinC, are believing wrong things and are following the wrong men who are teaching you wrong things. You are not believing the words of the scriptures in their context.

In truth, I am believing the whole word of God and I believe it is one continual message of God's promised redemption of His elect and chosen people. I do not break God up into parts like you try to do.

There is much to know and the Lord will teach us if we will believe him.

The Lord will teach His elect. He will accomplish His will through us. Give God the glory and don't lift up yourself as being important.

Today, sinners must believe the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ to be saved. The "gospel" is the power of God unto salvation. It will come when we believe.

Certainly those whom God makes alive by grace and empowers them to believe are saved.

Our main difference is you make men equal in salvation or even greater in salvation than God. You have men as the cause agent and God as the reacting agent to man as the cause.
I recognize God as the cause agent and men as the effected ones whom God saves by grace alone and justified by faith alone.

 

[JD731]

AustinC, you are not believing the words written in the scriptures. You are believing some kind of religious teaching that has been developed by some man or group of men. Much of your statements are illogical. You reasoning is senseless given the information in the scriptures. A for instance here; if sinners could be saved before the cross of Christ and the shedding of his blood, it would have been senseless for him to endure the suffering of the cross.

Ga 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

The promise he is mentioning has been identified already as the Spirit. One must believe the gospel of Jesus Christ to receive him.Remember what Romans 8:9 said, "Now if any man hath not the Spirit, he is none of his (God's).

God justifies all who believes in Jesus Christ for their salvation. Sinners must believe the gospel of Christ. To teach that one cannot, or need not, believe to be saved is to preach another gospel and to deny hundreds of statements in the scriptures.

Ga 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

There are no statements in the scriptures that matches your theology of salvation.

 

[Van]

Ephesians 1:3-4 is utter fiction?
Well, we have Vanology on display with that post.

Did I say Ephesians 1:3-4 was fiction or the posted disinformation advocating false doctrine?

Actual posted view!
AustinC said: ↑
Ephesians 1:3-4 tells us when God chooses us individually.
Van said:
Utter fiction as scripture precludes reading that bogus view into the text.

And what is "that" view? That Ephesians 1:3-4 tells us when God chooses us individually.

The verse says we were chosen in Him before creation, thus when Logos was chosen to be the Lamb of God, those He would redeem were chosen corporately as those the chosen Redeemer would redeem.

 

[Van]

The Doctrine of Election is a Nutshell: "God chooses the individuals He will save."

Does this tell us whether the election is corporate or individual? Yes, our election to salvation is individual.

Does this tell us when God chooses us individually? No. But 2 Thessalonians 2:13 tells us God uses our faith in the truth to make His Election, thus individual election occurs not before creation, but during our lifetime after God credits our faith as righteous faith

 

[AustinC]

AustinC, you are not believing the words written in the scriptures. You are believing some kind of religious teaching that has been developed by some man or group of men. Much of your statements are illogical. You reasoning is senseless given the information in the scriptures. A for instance here; if sinners could be saved before the cross of Christ and the shedding of his blood, it would have been senseless for him to endure the suffering of the cross.

Ga 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

The promise he is mentioning has been identified already as the Spirit. One must believe the gospel of Jesus Christ to receive him.Remember what Romans 8:9 said, "Now if any man hath not the Spirit, he is none of his (God's).

God justifies all who believes in Jesus Christ for their salvation. Sinners must believe the gospel of Christ. To teach that one cannot, or need not, believe to be saved is to preach another gospel and to deny hundreds of statements in the scriptures.

Ga 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

There are no statements in the scriptures that matches your theology of salvation.

You really cannot see how your assertions promote works salvation by man's effort. It's right there for all to see, but you cannot see it. You have completely removed God grace as the cause of salvation. Instead, you promote God's grace as the effect of human effort that causes God to act. Such a soteriology is never, ever, taught in the Bible, yet you teach it and tell me I am not believing the Bible when I don't believe your faulty soteriology. You quote scripture and you are clueless that Paul doesn't mean what you are forcing upon Paul. Until you grasp that God's grace saved you apart from any choice you made, you will hold a non-biblical soteriology that lifts man above God.

I reject your soteriology as Godless and Man-centered.

 

[Silverhair]

You really cannot see how your assertions promote works salvation by man's effort. It's right there for all to see, but you cannot see it. You have completely removed God grace as the cause of salvation. Instead, you promote God's grace as the effect of human effort that causes God to act. Such a soteriology is never, ever, taught in the Bible, yet you teach it and tell me I am not believing the Bible when I don't believe your faulty soteriology. You quote scripture and you are clueless that Paul doesn't mean what you are forcing upon Paul. Until you grasp that God's grace saved you apart from any choice you made, you will hold a non-biblical soteriology that lifts man above God.

I reject your soteriology as Godless and Man-centered.

Typical rant by the self righteous one. Austin you are so full of yourself and your false theology that you refuse to see what is right in front of you.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Austin you have to work very hard to misunderstand those words but you seem to have achieved it.

Perhaps the following verses will help you see the truth of scripture.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Note man does not save himself as you keep saying. God saves those that believe.

What is the gift of God? Salvation.

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Salvation is available to all as God would like all to be saved but as we know not all will be because they reject the gospel message.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Now I know you will disagree with these verses as they do not fit with your theology so it may be time for you to take a hard look at what you are holding to.

 

[AustinC]

The verse says we were chosen in Him before creation, thus when Logos was chosen to be the Lamb of God, those He would redeem were chosen corporately as those the chosen Redeemer would redeem.

How do you get "thus" blah, blah, blah from Ephesians 1:3-4?

You seem to make Jesus less than by saying he was chosen to be the Lamb of God.
Jesus was always the one who would Redeem the elect.

You keep adding this "corporate" piece as though you have some sort of biblical support, but you have none.

The elect were written into the Covenant (read Hebrews 9) which is the Will of Jesus that became effective at His death. There we received our inheritance, both the saints of old and the saints that came after the cross. Each of the elect were individually written into the will (Covenant) and we are now seated with Christ Jesus in the heavenlies (Ephesians 2).

Van, you keep promoting something that no other believer promotes. Let that sink in to your mind.

 

[Silverhair]

How do you get "thus" blah, blah, blah from Ephesians 1:3-4?

You seem to make Jesus less than by saying he was chosen to be the Lamb of God.
Jesus was always the one who would Redeem the elect.

You keep adding this "corporate" piece as though you have some sort of biblical support, but you have none.

The elect were written into the Covenant (read Hebrews 9) which is the Will of Jesus that became effective at His death. There we received our inheritance, both the saints of old and the saints that came after the cross. Each of the elect were individually written into the will (Covenant) and we are now seated with Christ Jesus in the heavenlies (Ephesians 2).

Van, you keep promoting something that no other believer promotes. Let that sink in to your mind.

You keep promoting that you were chosen before the foundation of the world which you have been shown is not biblical and yet you hold to it. Let that sink in to your mind.

 

[JD731]

You really cannot see how your assertions promote works salvation by man's effort. It's right there for all to see, but you cannot see it. You have completely removed God grace as the cause of salvation. Instead, you promote God's grace as the effect of human effort that causes God to act. Such a soteriology is never, ever, taught in the Bible, yet you teach it and tell me I am not believing the Bible when I don't believe your faulty soteriology. You quote scripture and you are clueless that Paul doesn't mean what you are forcing upon Paul. Until you grasp that God's grace saved you apart from any choice you made, you will hold a non-biblical soteriology that lifts man above God.

I reject your soteriology as Godless and Man-centered.

Grace is the operative principle of God's divine dealing with gentiles during the apostolic era, which ended in AD 70, and is the principle of divine dealing with Jews and gentiles since then. Does this mean God had no grace for Israel and the Jews during OT times. No, it does not mean that because God is a gracious God at all times, but during the OT, after the Mosaic law was given to Israel through Moses, the operative principle of divine dealing with them was "Law." Jesus Christ brought the Law to an end as the operative principle of dealing with them by his death. Does that mean there is no law any longer. No, it does not mean that but it does mean the saints are motivated to keep the law for a different reason now. It is inward, not outward. It is by the power of the Spirit of Christ, not by the power of the flesh. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth Rom 10:4.

Now, Jesus Christ said he came to fulfill all that was written in the law and the psalms and the prophets concerning him. This means he is keeping his promises to Israel. Even the promise of gentile salvation was a promise to Abraham and not to gentiles. Salvation is of the Jews, Jesus said in John 4 to the Samaritan woman.

One should understand from all the scriptures I have quoted already in this thread that God is dealing with the Jews first. This Romans passage from chapter 7, verse one, through chapter 11 is an explanation to them and about them as it relates to the history that is unfolding in these very early days of the church age when they look around and see gentiles accepted as equal with Israel in the body of Christ in spite of the fact God has made all these promises in immutable covenants with them. Remember, this Roman epistle was written in 58 AD. All the NT history from Acts 1 through Acts 18 had passed when Paul wrote this letter. There had been 28 years of church history for Israel and 18 years of church history for gentiles when this epistle was written. The Jews had a need to understand what God was doing during this time of national blindness of Israel that resulted in the unpardonable sin of that generation because of their national rejection of Jesus Christ.

Matt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them (Israel) in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

Now I have quoted a parable from Luke, a prophesy of Jesus Christ in a metaphor, that describes this whole age. Jesus Christ has prepared a supper and he has guests who have been previously invited. It was not a breakfast, nor was it a lunch, but it was a supper. A supper comes at the end of the day when the work is over (Jesus said on the cross, it is finished, meaning the work is done). Those who were bidden would not come. Prophetically, this was Jerusalem and Judaea. Afterwards he sent them out to Samaria and Galilee and compelled them to come because their was yet room. Still later he sent them farther out to suspect characters, gentiles. What was the objective according to the wording of the prophesy, the purpose. It was so his house (family) might be FULL.

So, in Romans, the chapters I have mentioned already, we are going to read about the offspring of Abraham, who was the father of the people of Israel through Isaac after the flesh. This put them into the family of Abraham but it did not put them into the family of God. We read the story and find that God is intent on building this family and so he received them who would hear the invitation and come, just a remnant, but because there was not enough of them for his family, He invited others who were not of the family of Abraham and he was going to receive them as long as they would come. When they will no longer come, because of unbelief, his house will be full. It would be after that that he will save Israel and keep all those covenants that were made with Abraham's family alone.

The scriptures makes sense to those who will believe the words and will understand that one must be born again through faith in Jesus Christ before he will give the light of his glorious person and his ways. One must be sure of this above all else. A man who will teach others that he cannot believe is not going to help anybody when that is exactly what men must do to be born again.

I will be back to show some interesting things about Ephesians and election later, not because I think it will help you, but it will help someone who has a thirst for truth.