The Doctrine of Election in a Nutshell

[37818]

No, you unbiblical.with it You dont understand that passage.

Empty false accusation.
How is what unBiblical?

 

[Silverhair]

You are in error friend with this conditional election fallacy, thats totally against Grace !

Conditional election is the God given means of salvation so logically it can not be against grace. Remember we are save by grace through faith Ephesians 2:8.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes they are elected before they believe.

You really need to take of those calvinist glasses. You have it backwards.

 

[37818]

@Brightfame52,. So you think what you believe is correct. Act like it. Present the Biblical truth simply to help a brother. If you cannot do that, hold your peace.

 

[Silverhair]

Its unbiblical !

You think you know better than the Holy Spirit. With the comments of BF his arrogance has reached a totally different level .

 

[Silverhair]

. Salvation is eternal with regard to God because He is its Author .of it and He is Eternal Deut 33:27 Therefore, with God salvation has neither beginning nor ending. 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

However
with the elect, it does have a subjective beginning in time !

BF you are doing the typical move of calvinists, you pull bits and peaces of verses out of context to support your errant view. Your misuse of scripture is shocking to say the least.

 

[Van]

Note, I disregard Van's opinion which is his alone and has no essential biblical support.

Scripture tells us we were chosen/elected before the foundation of the world Scripture tells us that before birth, before we ever do right or wrong, God's choice is already set.

During our lifetime the faith which God has given us is righteous and thus we are justified by the righteous faith of God, which is given to us...individually.

Van's "corporate" theory is his own opinion without any biblical support.

Once again, this poster is allowed to claim mind reading proficiency, knowing that none of those advocating corporate election in Ephesians 1:4 exist. This of course is utter fiction.
Scripture tells us we were chosen through faith in the truth, thus a conditional election when we were physically alive and God had credited our faith in Christ as righteous faith.
And once again the nonsense is posted that God instills us with unrighteous faith with then is credited as righteous faith. I kid you not.

This is all they have folks, ignore verse after verse and post absurd nonsense.

 

[JD731]

You are in error friend with this conditional election fallacy, thats totally against Grace !

The mystery of Christ that is being revealed with scripture written by the apostle Paul.

There are some things you should know about the apostle Paul. He was a law keeper and was an enemy of the church of Jesus Christ.
He said he persecuted the church and wasted it. He was present in Acts 7 when Stephan was murdered by the Jewish rulers in Jerusalem and held the coats of those who stoned him. This was probably in 37 AD. He was converted on the way to Damascus on an errand to imprison Jewish Christians not long after that. He would be the 13th apostle in number but separate from the twelve. Their mission was to the circumcision and his was to the gentiles. See Ga 2 now. Paul was not called until after the Jewish nation rejected Christ and the Spirit in Acts 7. This is important to understanding the mystery.

Now, I am going to cut out a small portion of what he said to the Ephesians, who were gentiles, and represented all gentile Christians. Read this carefully.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[The word "both" means Jew and gentile believers. If you do not get this you may as well close the letter now]
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (the two) one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (gentiles), and to them that were nigh (Jews).
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye (gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (Jewish believers), and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom (Jesus Christ) ye (gentiles) also (in addition to) are builded together (with the Jewish believers) for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Stop here. SELAH. Read this again and see what the cause is. The cause is the mystery of Christ!

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

[Here is the mystery of Christ stated so plainly that it would be a crime against scholarship to miss it].

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body (as the Jews), and partakers (with the Jews) of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

[They will be brought into this fellowship, not by election, but by the gospel].

7 Whereof (the gospel) I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

I want to focus in on those last 4 verses that I have quoted above, but first I want to make a statement about the trinitarian signature relative to this mystery. No matter how one looks at it, the trinity of this body is evident.

1) It is made up of Jews, gentiles, and the Holy Spirit indwells it.
2) Those who are immersed into it are Body, Soul, and Spirit indwelling.
3) Complete, it is Jesus the head, the body, the believers, and the Spirit indwelling.

One reading verse 7 and 8 above must inquire of the scriptures where the grace of God was before it was given as a special gift to Paul as he was enabled by the Spirit to make this mystery known to the gentiles. Grace, he says above is a gift to the gentiles. One must ask in what way it was a gift to us? Where was grace in the previous 10 years before Paul began his ministry to gentiles and making this mystery known, as well as the unsearchable riches of Christ? Could it be that Jesus Christ did not lie when he said in the gospels that he came to fulfill all the promises concerning himself that were written in the Law, and Prophets, and the Psalms. Would then it be a stretch to believe that God was saving Jews and Israel on the principle of promises he had made during the OT times, and when the people rejected him, he then went to the nations to whom he had made no promises and invited them to be saved by the same man who was sent to the Jews?

I would that you would carefully consider what Paul had said in chapter 2 of his letter to the Ephesians; I said carefully consider.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

What is a better example of grace to a people than is described here? No God, no Christ, no covenants, ho hope. What a terrible condition to be in.

BUT NOW.

The blood of Christ is made available to us in spite of that and all who will avail themselves of this grace will be in Christ and will be accepted IN THE BELOVED, where the Jewish believers were already, being first.

What a wonderful truth and I must say thank you Lord because we are truly undeserving of your wonderful grace. You have given us your Holy Spirit, who is the promise.

I have more wonders to speak of later. Think on this and know it is not too late to reset.

 

[AustinC]

Once again, this poster is allowed to claim mind reading proficiency, knowing that none of those advocating corporate election in Ephesians 1:4 exist. This of course is utter fiction.
Scripture tells us we were chosen through faith in the truth, thus a conditional election when we were physically alive and God had credited our faith in Christ as righteous faith.
And once again the nonsense is posted that God instills us with unrighteous faith with then is credited as righteous faith. I kid you not.

This is all they have folks, ignore verse after verse and post absurd nonsense.

Notice that Van has no scripture for his assertion which is..."Scripture tells us we were chosen through faith in the truth."

Nowhere do we find the Bible saying God's children were chosen through faith. Van promotes an open fiction.

 

[AustinC]

The mystery of Christ that is being revealed with scripture written by the apostle Paul.

There are some things you should know about the apostle Paul. He was a law keeper and was an enemy of the church of Jesus Christ.
He said he persecuted the church and wasted it. He was present in Acts 7 when Stephan was murdered by the Jewish rulers in Jerusalem and held the coats of those who stoned him. This was probably in 37 AD. He was converted on the way to Damascus on an errand to imprison Jewish Christians not long after that. He would be the 13th apostle in number but separate from the twelve. Their mission was to the circumcision and his was to the gentiles. See Ga 2 now. Paul was not called until after the Jewish nation rejected Christ and the Spirit in Acts 7. This is important to understanding the mystery.

Now, I am going to cut out a small portion of what he said to the Ephesians, who were gentiles, and represented all gentile Christians. Read this carefully.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[The word "both" means Jew and gentile believers. If you do not get this you may as well close the letter now]
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (the two) one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (gentiles), and to them that were nigh (Jews).
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye (gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (Jewish believers), and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom (Jesus Christ) ye (gentiles) also (in addition to) are builded together (with the Jewish believers) for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Stop here. SELAH. Read this again and see what the cause is. The cause is the mystery of Christ!

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

[Here is the mystery of Christ stated so plainly that it would be a crime against scholarship to miss it].

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body (as the Jews), and partakers (with the Jews) of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

[They will be brought into this fellowship, not by election, but by the gospel].

7 Whereof (the gospel) I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

I want to focus in on those last 4 verses that I have quoted above, but first I want to make a statement about the trinitarian signature relative to this mystery. No matter how one looks at it, the trinity of this body is evident.

1) It is made up of Jews, gentiles, and the Holy Spirit indwells it.
2) Those who are immersed into it are Body, Soul, and Spirit indwelling.
3) Complete, it is Jesus the head, the body, the believers, and the Spirit indwelling.

One reading verse 7 and 8 above must inquire of the scriptures where the grace of God was before it was given as a special gift to Paul as he was enabled by the Spirit to make this mystery known to the gentiles. Grace, he says above is a gift to the gentiles. One must ask in what way it was a gift to us? Where was grace in the previous 10 years before Paul began his ministry to gentiles and making this mystery known, as well as the unsearchable riches of Christ? Could it be that Jesus Christ did not lie when he said in the gospels that he came to fulfill all the promises concerning himself that were written in the Law, and Prophets, and the Psalms. Would then it be a stretch to believe that God was saving Jews and Israel on the principle of promises he had made during the OT times, and when the people rejected him, he then went to the nations to whom he had made no promises and invited them to be saved by the same man who was sent to the Jews?

I would that you would carefully consider what Paul had said in chapter 2 of his letter to the Ephesians; I said carefully consider.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

What is a better example of grace to a people than is described here? No God, no Christ, no covenants, ho hope. What a terrible condition to be in.

BUT NOW.

The blood of Christ is made available to us in spite of that and all who will avail themselves of this grace will be in Christ and will be accepted IN THE BELOVED, where the Jewish believers were already, being first.

What a wonderful truth and I must say thank you Lord because we are truly undeserving of your wonderful grace. You have given us your Holy Spirit, who is the promise.

I have more wonders to speak of later. Think on this and know it is not too late to reset.

All these words used just to muddle up the simple truth that God elected his children before the foundation of the world.

 

[Brightfame52]

Empty false accusation.
How is what unBiblical?

I already explained that, you dont pay attention.to me

 

[Brightfame52]

Conditional election is the God given means of salvation so logically it can not be against grace. Remember we are save by grace through faith Ephesians 2:8.

You mixing law and grace, or grace and works, cant do it friend.

 

[Brightfame52]

You really need to take of those calvinist glasses. You have it backwards.

They were chosen before the foundation in Christ Eph 1:4, they believe in time. Thats election before they believe Duh

 

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfame52,. So you think what you believe is correct. Act like it. Present the Biblical truth simply to help a brother. If you cannot do that, hold your peace.

I have explained the truth to you many many times, you pay it no mine.

 

[Brightfame52]

You think you know better than the Holy Spirit. With the comments of BF his arrogance has reached a totally different level .

Do i think I know better than the Holy Spirit ? No, and where did that come from ?

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you are doing the typical move of calvinists, you pull bits and peaces of verses out of context to support your errant view. Your misuse of scripture is shocking to say the least.

Did you even take time to ponder the scriptures I provided ?

 

[Brightfame52]

The mystery of Christ that is being revealed with scripture written by the apostle Paul.

There are some things you should know about the apostle Paul. He was a law keeper and was an enemy of the church of Jesus Christ.
He said he persecuted the church and wasted it. He was present in Acts 7 when Stephan was murdered by the Jewish rulers in Jerusalem and held the coats of those who stoned him. This was probably in 37 AD. He was converted on the way to Damascus on an errand to imprison Jewish Christians not long after that. He would be the 13th apostle in number but separate from the twelve. Their mission was to the circumcision and his was to the gentiles. See Ga 2 now. Paul was not called until after the Jewish nation rejected Christ and the Spirit in Acts 7. This is important to understanding the mystery.

Now, I am going to cut out a small portion of what he said to the Ephesians, who were gentiles, and represented all gentile Christians. Read this carefully.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[The word "both" means Jew and gentile believers. If you do not get this you may as well close the letter now]
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (the two) one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (gentiles), and to them that were nigh (Jews).
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye (gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (Jewish believers), and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom (Jesus Christ) ye (gentiles) also (in addition to) are builded together (with the Jewish believers) for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Stop here. SELAH. Read this again and see what the cause is. The cause is the mystery of Christ!

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

[Here is the mystery of Christ stated so plainly that it would be a crime against scholarship to miss it].

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body (as the Jews), and partakers (with the Jews) of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

[They will be brought into this fellowship, not by election, but by the gospel].

7 Whereof (the gospel) I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

I want to focus in on those last 4 verses that I have quoted above, but first I want to make a statement about the trinitarian signature relative to this mystery. No matter how one looks at it, the trinity of this body is evident.

1) It is made up of Jews, gentiles, and the Holy Spirit indwells it.
2) Those who are immersed into it are Body, Soul, and Spirit indwelling.
3) Complete, it is Jesus the head, the body, the believers, and the Spirit indwelling.

One reading verse 7 and 8 above must inquire of the scriptures where the grace of God was before it was given as a special gift to Paul as he was enabled by the Spirit to make this mystery known to the gentiles. Grace, he says above is a gift to the gentiles. One must ask in what way it was a gift to us? Where was grace in the previous 10 years before Paul began his ministry to gentiles and making this mystery known, as well as the unsearchable riches of Christ? Could it be that Jesus Christ did not lie when he said in the gospels that he came to fulfill all the promises concerning himself that were written in the Law, and Prophets, and the Psalms. Would then it be a stretch to believe that God was saving Jews and Israel on the principle of promises he had made during the OT times, and when the people rejected him, he then went to the nations to whom he had made no promises and invited them to be saved by the same man who was sent to the Jews?

I would that you would carefully consider what Paul had said in chapter 2 of his letter to the Ephesians; I said carefully consider.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

What is a better example of grace to a people than is described here? No God, no Christ, no covenants, ho hope. What a terrible condition to be in.

BUT NOW.

The blood of Christ is made available to us in spite of that and all who will avail themselves of this grace will be in Christ and will be accepted IN THE BELOVED, where the Jewish believers were already, being first.

What a wonderful truth and I must say thank you Lord because we are truly undeserving of your wonderful grace. You have given us your Holy Spirit, who is the promise.

I have more wonders to speak of later. Think on this and know it is not too late to reset.

Friend I dont get it. Why did you post all this ?

 

[37818]

I already explained that, you dont pay attention.to me

What was that first Scripture reference or post # with it.

 

[37818]

I have explained the truth to you many many times, you pay it no mine.

Give that post. Or are you not being as truthful as you suppose.

 

[JD731]

Friend I dont get it. Why did you post all this ?

I know you don't and I fear you are so buried in Calvinism and their false doctrines that the light can't get through. However I will post a prayer of the apostle Paul from Eph 1 that is for all in the church, the body of Christ. Paul knows what he is doing in his letters to the churches. He is explaining the mysteries of God and giving hope to the gentiles. He knows two things must be present to have his prayer answered. One, this is a revelation from God and so one must have the Spirit to understand the words. Two, One must believe the words of this explanation.

A word of caution here. God says for us to speak the same things and there is great danger in quoting words that he has not given like some on this thread are doing. Paul knows that the light that he is praying for us to receive rides in on Spirit chosen words.

Ps 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
Light means understanding.


Following is the petition of God for this epistle.

Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world (<165> aion = age), but also in that (<165>) which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.