Believing in Christ and Calling Upon the Name of the Lord

[Silverhair]

and to be saved, etc. ( not "all men without exception" to be saved,...OR....ALL men, women,
boys, and girls would BE SAVED/ and they are not).

"all men without exception" to be saved, in these passages, is an impossibly false 'interpretation'
and should be highly weighed as to its impossibility in any other Scriptures, also.

Alan do you not have this verse in your bible?
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
or this one
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Why do you not believe that God actually wants all people to be saved? He says He does.
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Do you think God is telling a lie here?

Joh 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

If the fist part of the sentence is true, which it is, then the second part is true also or perhaps you think Christ was being disingenuous.

 

[Silverhair]

Yep, we should pray, intercede, and thank God for all people, including kings, governor's, and all people.

Why?

So that Christians can live quiet, peaceful, Godly, and dignified lives (as opposed to being persecuted by those in authority).

*1 Timothy 2:1-2*

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

Notice that universal atonement is not suggested at all in these first two verses. Therefore attempting to bring in universal atonement in the next three verses is just awful hermeneutics.

The conundrum of general atonement proponents still remains and they refuse to be honest with their conundrum.

Austin still does not understand context but then he does not understand many things about the bible it would seem.

 

[Silverhair]

One thing I have found on BB is that calvinist really are determined. They can not help having the view they hold as it has been determined that they do so. So we really should continue to reach out to them in love so they may at some point come to see the truth of scripture rather than the false view they hold at the present time.

 

[Alan Gross]

Therein lays the error of calvinism. Calvinism requires that you be totally clueless about anything and just respond to the strings that God pulls. How you can have such a low view of God is astounding. You claim to trust the bible but it has to fit within the calvinist philosophy or you reject what it says. I had been told that calvinism was actually a gnostic philosophy which from what I have seen on this board I would have to say is true. Gnostic's think they possess a superior understand of what ever they hold to, in this case the bible, but that is only because they tend to exist in an echo chamber environment. Alan if you really want to understand the bible you will have to remove yourself from that echo chamber. As I said before I am willing to help you where I can.

There is no need for the lost soul to concern themselves with, "How God Saves a Soul",
until they are lost.

The Eternal Moral Law of God must CONVICT the lost soul that they are,
as Ephesians and elsewhere say, "dead".

2:1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh,
fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath,
even as others."

To say that, "the lost sinner is dead, but that doesn't mean he can't bring himself up out of the ashes of death, into Partaking of The Divine Nature in Everlasting Life, IF HE WANTS TO", would be an Eternally Fatal False Philosophy of the flesh and included in,

"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh,
fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath,
even as others."

 

[Alan Gross]

One thing I have found on BB is that calvinist really are determined. They can not help having the view they hold as it has been determined that they do so. So we really should continue to reach out to them in love so they may at some point come to see the truth of scripture rather than the false view they hold at the present time.

There is no need for the lost soul to concern themselves with, "How God Saves a Soul",
until they are lost.

The Eternal Moral Law of God must CONVICT the lost soul that they are,
as Ephesians and elsewhere say, "dead".

2:1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

 

[37818]

.

2:1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Referring to them having been saved through the faith. [2:5] [2:8] [Jude 1:3]

[FYI the _you hath he quickened_ is from that word in verse 5, the subject being, having been saved.]

 

[Alan Gross]

.

Referring to them having been saved through the faith. [2:5] [2:8] [Jude 1:3]

[FYI the _you hath he quickened_ is from that word in verse 5, the subject being, having been saved.]

Amen.

 

[Silverhair]

There is no need for the lost soul to concern themselves with, "How God Saves a Soul",
until they are lost.

The Eternal Moral Law of God must CONVICT the lost soul that they are,
as Ephesians and elsewhere say, "dead".

2:1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh,
fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath,
even as others."

To say that, "the lost sinner is dead, but that doesn't mean he can't bring himself up out of the ashes of death, into Partaking of The Divine Nature in Everlasting Life, IF HE WANTS TO", would be an Eternally Fatal False Philosophy of the flesh and included in,

"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh,
fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath,
even as others."

Just another example of your total misunderstanding of scripture. You are following your calvinism rather than the bible.

 

[Silverhair]

There is no need for the lost soul to concern themselves with, "How God Saves a Soul",
until they are lost.

The Eternal Moral Law of God must CONVICT the lost soul that they are,
as Ephesians and elsewhere say, "dead".

2:1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Are these that same ones that hear and believe in Eph 1:13. Seems they do quite well for dead people.

 

[Alan Gross]

Just another example of your total misunderstanding of scripture. You are following your calvinism rather than the bible.

King James Bible
"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually".
Genesis 6:5

 

[Alan Gross]

Are these that same ones that hear and believe in Eph 1:13. Seems they do quite well for dead people.

"..hath He Quickened..." Ephesians 2:1a
..."who were dead in trespasses and sins;" Ephesians 2:1b

...
King James Bible
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation:
in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

These were made Alive from the dead; in the context of Ephesians 2 Teaches.

They were Given Repentance and Faith (trusted) when they heard the Word of God
and The Holy Spirit Gave them the Ability to Turn or Burn.

 

[Alan Gross]

Alan do you not have this verse in your bible?
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
or this one
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Why do you not believe that God actually wants all people to be saved? He says He does.
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Do you think God is telling a lie here?

Joh 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

If the fist part of the sentence is true, which it is, then the second part is true also or perhaps you think Christ was being disingenuous.

This .PDF has 50 or 60 Passages, in Part 1,
which "some believe appear to teach Universal Atonement,"
however, when they are correctly divided, do not.

https://www.grace-ebooks.com/library/John Gill/JG_Cause of God and Truth The.pdf

 

[Silverhair]

King James Bible
"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually".
Genesis 6:5

You do know what hyperbole is don't you?

 

[Silverhair]

"..hath He Quickened..." Ephesians 2:1a
..."who were dead in trespasses and sins;" Ephesians 2:1b

...
King James Bible
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation:
in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

These were made Alive from the dead; in the context of Ephesians 2 Teaches.

They were Given Repentance and Faith (trusted) when they heard the Word of God
and The Holy Spirit Gave them the Ability to Turn or Burn.

Alan you putting the cart before the horse. The ones that heard and believed were the ones that were at one time spiritually dead but now are alive because of their faith.

 

[Silverhair]

This .PDF has 50 or 60 Passages, in Part 1,
which "some believe appear to teach Universal Atonement,"
however, when they are correctly divided, do not.

https://www.grace-ebooks.com/library/John Gill/JG_Cause of God and Truth The.pdf

You may want to read and trust Gill but I will spend my time reading the bible. It's a best seller and has a real good story line. You should read.
What I have found is that many of the calvinists on BB tend to spend way to much time reading non biblical books about the bible rather than the bible it self. You listen to people tell you what the bible says rather than spending the time digging out the gold yourself.

 

[AustinC]

Silverhair wrote:
The ones that heard and believed were the ones that were at one time spiritually dead but now are alive because of their faith.

Yet God wrote:

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
~ Ephesians 2:4-7

Now, some want to ignore the above statement by God and only look at the next statement.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
~ Ephesians 2:8-9

Silverhair promotes human action, "because of their faith," while God says "this is not your own doing."

It is obvious that Silverhair is wrong.

 

[Silverhair]

Silverhair wrote:
The ones that heard and believed were the ones that were at one time spiritually dead but now are alive because of their faith.

Yet God wrote:

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
~ Ephesians 2:4-7

Now, some want to ignore the above statement by God and only look at the next statement.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
~ Ephesians 2:8-9

Silverhair promotes human action, "because of their faith," while God says "this is not your own doing."

It is obvious that Silverhair is wrong.

Austin you seem to think I have a problem with the scripture you posted, I do not. We are saved by the grace of God because we believe just as we are told.
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Salvation is the gift of God. Why would you think I do not believe that? You, Austin, are mistaken when you say faith is the gift.

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Eph_2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Austin I understand you really struggle with this as it does not fit your theology. You need to remember that the bible is the authority not calvinism.

Act 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Eph 3:6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

Php 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

The God determined requirement for salvation is faith in His son. If one believes they will be saved if they do not they will be lost. We get that from a really good source, Christ Jesus.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Your stumbling block is you think faith is a work but the bible says it is not. Why do you still deny scripture in this matter.
Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Austin you need to get past that mental block that you have erected so that you can see the truths of scripture.

 

[Dave G]

Dave your comment "My friend, God's word does not tell anyone, anywhere, how to be born again." is to be blunt a lie and you should know this.

I'm not lying, sir.

Ephesians 1:13 " In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

Please look at it again...to me, it says "sealed", not "born again".

Seal: "conclude, establish, or secure (something) definitively, excluding the possibility of reversal or loss."

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

The way I read it, this says "saved", not "born again".

Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This says "believes" and "confession is made unto salvation", does it not?
Regrettably, I do not see where it says "born again".

Are these verses not in your bible or do you just ignore them.

I'm not ignoring anything.
I'm believing what they say.

 

[Dave G]

Joh 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Again, I see nothing here about being born again.

Notice the contrast those that believe are born again those that do not are lost.

I agree...I clearly see, from the passage, that those who believe are indeed born again.
But what I also notice is that there is nothing in John 3 that tells anyone how to be born again, nor do I find anywhere else in the Scriptures where the Lord is describing the process by which a person can cause Him to do this.

Question:
When you read these passages, do you conclude that believing on Christ is how a person is born again?

I do not.

We are told how to be born again, trust in the Son of God.

With respect, I think you are reading into the passages what is not there...that a person is born again by believing on Christ...
But I still do not see, in any of the passages that you've listed, the Lord telling anyone what it takes to bring about the new birth....
Only what people who believe on Christ either have, or will do.

I'm sorry, but it seems we will have to agree to disagree.
I wish you well, sir, and good evening to you.

 

[Silverhair]

I'm not lying, sir.

Please look at it again...to me, it says "sealed", not "born again".

Seal: "conclude, establish, or secure (something) definitively, excluding the possibility of reversal or loss."

The way I read it, this says "saved", not "born again".

This says "believes" and "confession is made unto salvation", does it not?
Regrettably, I do not see where it says "born again".

I'm not ignoring anything.
I'm believing what they say.

Dave for someone that claims to believe the bible you do a real good job of not trusting what it says.Dave perhaps you can explain what the difference is between one being saved and one being born again. Try to do it from a biblical perspective not from your calvinist one.