1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured About a Pastor who was twice a 5 point Calvinist.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Oct 19, 2022.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,981
    Likes Received:
    2,616
    Faith:
    Baptist
    six hour warining
    This thread will be closed no sooner than 352 pm edt / 1252 pm edt
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    559
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    559
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Then by your logic man has no free will so if man has no free will then God determines all that happens thus you have just made God the author of all the sin and evil in the world.
     
  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    559
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Austin you have made your own special meaning for sovereign. You rebel at the idea that God could and would actually grant man the ability to make real choices and then judge them on those choices. But that sure looks like what the bible says God doesn't it. You hold onto your distorted view of sovereignty and I will just go with what the bible shows Gods' sovereignty to actually be like.
     
  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nope

    Nope

    Sliverhair, indeed your humanism will never allow you to admit to being subservient under the determining will of God. This is to you error of which only God himself can correct.
     
  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    559
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Austin how do you get that dumb idea from what I have said? God is sovereign and He in His sovereignty allows for man to have a free will. You require God to determine all things then balk when it is pointed out that view would make God the author of sin. Note I said your errant view does that not the bible which it seems you only use to support you view by cherry picking verses.

    If you need God to pull your strings like a puppet so you dance to the tune He has determined for you then so be it but that is not the God of the bible. But your deterministic God will not let you see your error lest your eyes be opened to the truth and you actually turn to the biblical God.

    We have been down this road a number of times and you a still determined to ignore the truth of scripture, so be it. I will just pray that God will open your eyes to the truth before it is to late.
     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,632
    Likes Received:
    461
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Man is Free to Will what he has the Capacity to Will,
    which does not include having any Ability to Will
    to Come to God on his own.

    "Not of him that willeth".

    "You will not come to Me"


    Sin and evil in the world are the results of man's sin.

    God Created man and the circumstances within which man sinned,
    for God's Glory.
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Indeed, God is Sovereign.
    This is your opinion from humanist reasoning, but not from what God tells us in the Bible regarding our own salvation and redemption.

    Here you conclude that God authors sin by ordaining Adams capacity to rebel. Show us then that God authored rebellion.
    I will point you to the creation and show you that God authored humankind and by sovereign decreed gave man the capacity to break covenant yet not the capacity to restore covenant.

    Please show me how I cherry pick verses since I quote passages in context. Here, you simply speak falsely.

    Your view of a Sovereign God is so noted. Yet it is the God of the Bible who holds all His Creation in His Hands.
    *Colossians 1:15-23*
    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.


    Interesting that you acknowledge your god is not found in the Bible. If your god were found in the Bible you could show us how he places man upon a pedestal and bows to man's will, as you so arrogantly express.

    Not once have I ignored the truth of God and His word. I ignore your humanist philosophy and false religion that you spread on the BB like a cancer.

    He already has since I once lived in the darkness of your philosophy and have been graciously shown the splendor of God's Sovereign determination in redeeming the children whom he designated to inherit eternal life.

    Sliverhair, have you any knowledge of Grima Wormtongue? If you do, you would know how I view your words and your counsel.
     
  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,632
    Likes Received:
    461
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You 'system' of Salvation does not include:

    Predestined/ Elected

    The Effectual Call

    A Spiritually dead sinner

    Conviction of sin through the instrumentality of the word

    Repentance

    Spiritually wrought Faith and Belief

    Regeneration

    The Sealing of The Holy Spirit

    Justification

    Glorification


    It does include:

    Consent to not want to go to Hell

    in the form of:

    Mental "Belief"

    Mental "Faith"

    Mental "Choosing"

    Mental "Desition"

    "Making Jesus your Lord"

    "Meeting Jesus Half-Way"

    "True Trust"

    "Signing a Commitment Card"

    "Praying a sinners prayer",

    and that kind of fleshly activity.

    ...

    How far off am I?
     
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,632
    Likes Received:
    461
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The New Hampshire Confession of Faith 1833

    III. Of the Fall of Man

    We believe that man was created in holiness,
    under the law of his Maker, but by
    voluntary transgression fell from that holy and happy state;
    in consequence of which all mankind are now sinners,
    not by constraint but choice;

    being by nature utterly void of that holiness
    required by the law of God, positively inclined to evil;


    and therefore under just condemnation to eternal ruin,
    without defense or excuse.

    Gen.1:27; Gen.1:31; Ecc.7:29; Acts 17:26-29;
    Gen.2:16-17; Gen.3:6-24; Rom. 5:12;
    Rom.5:15-19; Ps.51:5; Rom.8:7; Isa.53:6;
    Gen.6:12; Rom.3:9-18; Eph.2:1-3;
    Rom.1:18,32; Rom.2:1-16; Gal.3:10; Matt. 20:15;
    Ezek. 18:19-20; Rom.1:20; Rom.3:19; Gal. 3:22.

    IV. Of the Way of Salvation

    We believe that the salvation of sinners is wholly of grace;
    through the Mediatorial offices of the Son of God;

    who by the appointment of the Father
    freely took upon him our nature, yet without sin;

    honored the divine law by his personal obedience,
    and by his death made a full atonement for our sins;

    having risen from the dead, he is now enthroned in heaven,
    and uniting in his wonderful person the tenderest sympathies
    with divine perfections, he is in every way qualified to be a suitable,
    a compassionate, and all-sufficient Saviour.

    V. Of Justification

    We believe that the great gospel blessing which Christ
    secures to such as believe in him is justification;

    that justification includes the pardon of sin,
    and the promise of eternal life on principles of righteousness;

    that it is bestowed
    not in consideration of any works of righteousness
    which we have done,
    but solely through faith in the Redeemer's blood;

    by virtue of which faith his perfect righteousness
    is freely imputed to us of God;

    that it brings us into a state of most blessed peace
    and favor with God,
    and secures every other blessing needful for time and eternity.

    John 1:16, Eph.3:8, Acts 13:39, Isa. 53:11-12,
    Rom5:1-2, Rom. 5:9, Zech. 13;1, Matt. 9:6, Acts 10:43,
    Rom. 5:17, Titus 3:5-7, I Peter 3:7, I John 2:25,
    Rom. 5:21, Rom. 4:4-5, Rom. 6:23, Phil. 3:7-9,
    Rom. 5:19, Rom. 3:24-26, Rom.4:23-25, I John 2:12,
    Rom. 5:3, Rom. 5:11, I Cor. 1:30-31, Matt. 6:33, I Tim. 4:8

    VI. Of the Freeness of Salvation

    We believe that the blessings of salvation
    are made free to all by the gospel;

    that it is the immediate duty of all to accept them
    by a cordial penitent, and obedient faith;

    and that nothing prevents the salvation
    of the greatest sinner on earth,
    but his own inherent depravity
    and voluntary rejection of the gospel;

    which rejection involves him in an aggravated condemnation

    Isa. 55:1, Rev. 22:17, Rom. 16:25-26, Mark 1:15,
    Rom. 1:15-17, John 5:40, Matt.23:37, Rom.9:32,
    Pro. 1:24, Acts 13:46, John 3:19, Matt. 11:20, Luke 10:27, II Thess. 1:8

    VII. Of Grace in Regeneration

    We believe that in order to be saved,
    sinners must be regenerated,
    or born again;

    that regeneration consists
    in giving a holy disposition to the mind;

    that it is effected in a manner
    above our comprehension
    by the power of the Holy Spirit,
    in connection with divine truth,

    so as to secure our
    voluntary obedience to the gospel;

    and that its proper evidence appears
    in the holy fruits of repentance and faith
    and newness of life

    John 3:3, John 3:6-7, I Cor.3:14, Rev.14:3, Rev. 21:27,
    II Cor. 5;17, Ezek. 36:26, Deu. 30-6, Rom. 2:28-29,
    Rom.5:5, I John 4:7, John 3:8, John 1:13, James 1:16-18,
    I Cor. 1:30, Phil. 2:13, I Peter 1:22-25, I John 5:1,
    Eph. 4:20-24, Col. 3:9-11, Eph. 5:9, Rom. 8:90, Gal. 5:16-23,
    Eph. 3:14-21, Matt. 3:8-10, Matt.7:20, I John 5:4, 18


    VIII. Of Repentance and Faith

    We believe that repentance and faith are sacred duties
    and also inseparable graces,
    wrought in our souls by the regenerating Spirit of God;

    whereby being deeply convinced of our guilt,
    danger and helplessness, and of the way of salvation by Christ,

    we turn to God with unfeigned contrition,
    confession and supplication for mercy; at the same time

    ...
    The 1677/89 London Baptist Confession of Faith

    3. Man by his fall into a state of sin
    hath wholly lost (d) all ability of Will,
    to any spiritual good accompanying salvation;

    so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, (e)
    and dead in Sin, is not able, by his own strength,
    to (f) convert himself; or to prepare himself thereunto.

    d Rom. 5.6. ch. 8.7.
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,828
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    .
    Did I miss it? Or is Genesis 3:22 reference actually missing?
     
  12. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    559
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "
    Man is Free to Will what he has the Capacity to Will,
    which does not include having any Ability to Will
    to Come to God on his own."

    Then man does not have free will. It is only your calvinisnt idea of what free will is.
     
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    559
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Austin you say God is sovereign then say God is not sovereign. It really is time that you make up your mind on this. It can only be one or the other.
     
  14. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,981
    Likes Received:
    2,616
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This thread is closed
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...