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Can you know if you are "elect".
- Thread starter DaveXR650
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
Do you WANT to be one of the elect?
Then you probably are.
Here is how the “non-elect” feel about Jesus:
John 3:19-20 [NASB95]
Romans 1:18-23 [NASB95]
Ephesians 2:1-3 [NASB95]
Then you probably are.
Here is how the “non-elect” feel about Jesus:
John 3:19-20 [NASB95]
"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.”
Romans 1:18-23 [NASB95]
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
Ephesians 2:1-3 [NASB95]
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
The bible says we can make our election sure. And we know that those who are elect stay faithful to the end. So if we stay faithful, we have at least some assurance "Jesus is mine, Oh what a foretaste...."
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The Righteousness of God Through Faith
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Spiritual Blessings in Christ are received through Faith
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Spiritual Blessings in Christ are received through Faith
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
I have been reading the Puritan, John Owen, on this and he covers and agrees with what both of you guys said. Of course as a Puritan he goes on and on and on.
I was posting when @Silverhair replied above. I take it the idea is that saving faith itself has in it some assurance that the promises of the gospel you are embracing would be for you, personally. I agree. So does Owen.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Christians should allow God’s Spirit to control them, their lives should be full of the most pleasing virtues. Their lives should demonstrate the truth that their sinful nature has been crucified with Christ and has no further power over them. They are now controlled by God’s Spirit. Galatians 5:22-23 Bridgeway Bible Commentary
In an ultimate sense this “fruit” is simply the life of Christ lived out in a Christian.
In an ultimate sense this “fruit” is simply the life of Christ lived out in a Christian.
DaveXR650 said:
Yes, if I believe something is true, then I do not believe it is untrue. If our faith is, to use Christ's term, "little faith," then we might lack assurance, but if we have gone "all in" then our assurance is part of the package.
But let us return to "knowing something is true" and "believing something is true." I believe I am a "born anew" child of God because I chose to trust in God and His Christ. I believe in the promise of John 3:16. But this belief is not based on evidence that demonstrates beyond a doubt, that my faith is true, it is based simply on trusting God completely.
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
There are two aspects to this. “Assurance of salvation”… yes there is scriptural support that we can know.
“Election” is a doctrinal position that is widely debated. We really can’t even agree what “elect” means.
Scripture tells us the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are children of God. Also, those that are led by the Spirit are children of God.
So, there is clearly a supernatural aspect of assurance of salvation. That is only an internal validation that cannot be quantified by anyone else.
We are in the outside looking in, we can only observe their behavior is consistent (or not) with a profession of faith.
Concerning “election”… well once your are assured of your own salvation you can be convinced in your own mind what “elect” means through careful Bible study.
peace to you
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
@canadyjd. I guess you're right. I was actually thinking more about assurance than election. I know on here the whole concept of election is disputed. But I was reading Owen and like always with the other Puritans he got into the question of assurance. They did that whether they were talking about election or holiness or saving faith. I find them helpful but I know some think they went to far and needlessly scared people.
,,,yet, clearly defined in the scripture:
11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, Ro 9
The endless on-slot of name calling posters of Falseology continues unabated.
1) Did anyone say we were chosen because we chose to believe? Nope, but this poster makes this false and demonic claim over and over.
2) What did I say? "I believe I am a "born anew" child of God because I chose to trust in God and His Christ. I believe in the promise of John 3:16. But this belief is not based on evidence that demonstrates beyond a doubt, that my faith is true, it is based simply on trusting God completely.
3) Was I saved by me choosing to believe, or by God keeping His promise of John 3:16. God keeping His promise to those He determines (by crediting their faith or not as righteous faith) believe. Thus I believe I was saved by grace through faith. Note how this Falseology poster edited my statement, removing the part about God keeping His promise.
4) I was born anew not by my will but solely by the will of God.
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It's 'onslaught', and you began all this with your relentless 'onslaught' against Sovereign Grace on this board years ago..
So, Van, let me get this straight, you're now saying that you elected Him because He first elected you?
Is what you really mean the 'invite' of John 3:16? It's a statement of fact, not an invite.
Ambivalent, at best. Does God get 100% of the credit, or not? Sounds to me like it's still a 'synergism' of your will and God's.
But only after you chose to believe, right?
And once again the onslaught continues, with absolutely nothing addressing my view!
1) Did I say I elected God? Nope so yet another outright falsehood from Falseology.
2) Did I say "invite" or promise? I said promise. So yet another outright falsehood from Falseology.
3) Did I say we share our salvation? Nope, so yet another outright falsehood from Falseology.
4) What did I say? "I was born anew not by my will, but solely by the will of God."
5) Yes, God credits the faith of some as righteous faith, see Romans 4. Falseology denies God credits our faith, and claims God must be crediting His own instilled faith or some such malarkey.
6) Falseology denies we are saved by grace through faith, claiming we are saved by grace and given faith. Not how it read...
More name calling, and no response to the Biblical position found in Romans 4, such as God credited his (Abraham's) faith.
Falseology simply is a doctrine of disinformation.
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