A question for Cavinist

[DaveXR650]

Question. What Scripture specifies "repenting of their sins" in having faith in Christ?

Acts 2:38 comes to mind. They were told they had killed the Christ.
Acts 3:26 talks about "turning you from your wickedness". John Chapter 3 is about belief but read the whole chapter. There were some who did not believe because they loved darkness rather than light. They refused to repent.
People have different backgrounds and different sins. If you are trying to obey the law for salvation you mainly need to repent of dead works. If you are like gentiles in Peter who in times past walked in debauchery you need to repent of gross sins. If you were a cheat like Zacchaeus you needed to repent of that. If you persecuted believers like Paul did you need to repent of that. If you were a serious Jew who in the earliest days just hadn't yet heard that Jesus was the actual Christ foretold then you needed to embrace that.

I know that there are some on here who try to confuse people by the "is that actually in scripture" and "you can't name a verse". There may be some value in that but sometimes it's good to get an easy to read translation and just read chunks of scripture to get an overall idea. Read all the sermons in Acts for instance. Notice how often when you look closely you see a reference to "the remission of sins". Don't let anyone tell you that this was not understood in the earliest days to be about the remission of sins.

 

[37818]

Acts 2:38 comes to mind. They were told they had killed the Christ.
Acts 3:26 talks about "turning you from your wickedness". John Chapter 3 is about belief but read the whole chapter. There were some who did not believe because they loved darkness rather than light. They refused to repent.
People have different backgrounds and different sins. If you are trying to obey the law for salvation you mainly need to repent of dead works. If you are like gentiles in Peter who in times past walked in debauchery you need to repent of gross sins. If you were a cheat like Zacchaeus you needed to repent of that. If you persecuted believers like Paul did you need to repent of that. If you were a serious Jew who in the earliest days just hadn't yet heard that Jesus was the actual Christ foretold then you needed to embrace that.

I know that there are some on here who try to confuse people by the "is that actually in scripture" and "you can't name a verse". There may be some value in that but sometimes it's good to get an easy to read translation and just read chunks of scripture to get an overall idea. Read all the sermons in Acts for instance. Notice how often when you look closely you see a reference to "the remission of sins". Don't let anyone tell you that this was not understood in the earliest days to be about the remission of sins.

The forgiveness of sins is not at issue. That is the whole reason to believe in Christ, Acts of the Apostles 10:43, ". . . To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. . . ." Isaiah 43:11, ". . . I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. . . ." Joel 2:32, ". . . And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: . . ." Romans 10:13.

 

[kyredneck]

I've yet to see the first spelunker on this thread to answer the OP question,,,,where are you?

 

[Marooncat79]

Did God cont

I've yet to see the first spelunker on this thread to answer the OP question,,,,where are you?

Huh?

 

[JD731]

JD. I am not trying to make you into a Calvinist. My only point is what you noticed - that at a practical street level, our theologies are of limited use. I promise you the guy you mentioned was sincere. I know too many Calvinists like that and I personally know a 5 pointer street preacher currently doing this. As far as your 2 questions, I think those are valid questions for a Calvinist. But to get the whole picture you have to go a little further on each question:
1. Is there any possibility that an elect person, chosen before the foundation of the world, can be saved without personally coming to faith in Christ and repenting of their sins?
2. Is there any possibility that a person not elect and not chosen, either passed over or actively chosen for reprobation - is it possible that upon hearing the gospel that they want to believe and come to Christ but aren't allowed because of God's decree? Or, is the true situation that these are those who unfailingly reject the gospel by their own free will, even if they are influenced by the Word and by proper preaching?

Because that is what Calvinists believe and it's what they preach. I hope you understand me when I say this. The points you raised are valid questions. My argument is that we live in real time and have human minds. If you try to do too much with a theology you get immediately into a logical problem.

I really started noticing this when I read Spurgeon who talked about "soul winning" which I thought was owned by fundamentalists and then later when I read Horatius Bonar's "Words to Winners of Souls" which obviously was about the same subject. Also, the Puritan Calvinists, including the American Jonathan Edwards actually preached in a way that would sound very familiar to most regular Baptists, not just Calvinists. My only point is there there is a lot of common ground. I'm really not trying to convert you but the OP was about the animosity levels and if they were necessary. I say no.

Calvinism has complicated the most important part of the Christian faith, how to be saved. This is something that God desires to be super simple, so much so that he admonishes us to become as litte children and instead of the wise and prudent, he reveals it unto babes. There is nothing more simple than his command for sinners to repent of their sins because they are what condemns them and are what they must own, and they must believe that Jesus Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection has completely satified the justice of God and made us acceptable to him when we are willing to obey that command. What he said to one he said unto all. Why complicate that?

2 Cor 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Ro 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

This is how to glorify Jesus Christ. This infused faith taught by Calvinists cannot get it done.

One must obey God the Father, the giver of the gift, and he must believe on Jesus Christ who paid for it.

 

[kyredneck]

I've yet to see the first spelunker on this thread to answer the OP question,,,,where are you?

Huh?

A question for Cavinist

 

[David Kent]

Calvinism has complicated the most important part of the Christian faith, how to be saved. This is something that God desires to be super simple, so much so that he admonishes us to become as litte children and instead of the wise and prudent, he reveals it unto babes. There is nothing more simple than his command for sinners to repent of their sins because they are what condemns them and are what they must own, and they must believe that Jesus Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection has completely satified the justice of God and made us acceptable to him when we are willing to obey that command. What he said to one he said unto all. Why complicate that?

2 Cor 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Ro 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

This is how to glorify Jesus Christ. This infused faith taught by Calvinists cannot get it done.

One must obey God the Father, the giver of the gift, and he must believe on Jesus Christ who paid for it.

That is the most ridiculous statement I have seen on here.
When I was in a freewill church, the word they preached was exactly the same as in churches I have been in since. It us believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repent and turn to Christ. We preach Christ and him crucified. As someone said most of the great preachers in past years have been Calvinists.

 

[DaveXR650]

A question for Cavinist

I figure everyone on here is tapping this out with their thumbs on a cell phone while driving and eating a sandwich so I don't even notice anymore.

 

[Piper]

I figure everyone on here is tapping this out with their thumbs on a cell phone while driving and eating a sandwich so I don't even notice anymore.

Here' the average BB poster.

 

[JD731]

That is the most ridiculous statement I have seen on here.
When I was in a freewill church, the word they preached was exactly the same as in churches I have been in since. It us believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repent and turn to Christ. We preach Christ and him crucified. As someone said most of the great preachers in past years have been Calvinists.

Are you saying that a man who preaches that a man cannot believe the gospel when he hears it ifGod has not chosen him before the foundation of the world is the same and equal with the man who preached that a man must believe the gospel when he hears it and God will give him the gift of eternal life like he said he would?

I don't know your education level but you need to restudy reason and logic.

 

[David Kent]

Are you saying that a man who preaches that a man cannot believe the gospel when he hears it ifGod has not chosen him before the foundation of the world is the same and equal with the man who preached that a man must believe the gospel when he hears it and God will give him the gift of eternal life like he said he would?

I don't know your education level but you need to restudy reason and logic.

That is not what we preach.

We have an open air meeting on Thursday weather permitting which doesn't look likely. Although the last three were bad weather forecasts. But we are praying.

Fly over here and join us and you can see what we preach.

 

[Piper]

Are you saying that a man who preaches that a man cannot believe the gospel when he hears it ifGod has not chosen him before the foundation of the world is the same and equal with the man who preached that a man must believe the gospel when he hears it and God will give him the gift of eternal life like he said he would?

I don't know your education level but you need to restudy reason and logic.

No need to get personal and call people stupid.

 

[JD731]

No need to get personal and call people stupid.

Not calling anyone stupid but there is a great difference. It is about reason and logic. In Calvinist theology a man who is not specially chosen to be saved cannot be saved if he is preached to for a thousand years. I have it from Calvinist evangelists. Fundamentalists believe God has invited all sinners to be saved and he has promised to save all who will come to him through their faith in Christ. The two are different.

 

[kyredneck]

I figure everyone on here is tapping this out with their thumbs on a cell phone while driving and eating a sandwich so I don't even notice anymore.

…just interjecting some humor Dave. No need to be serious all the time.

 

[David Kent]

We preach salvation in Jesus, we don't know who will be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Some say "Why do you pray for people to be saved if God fas decided?" I ask the same "Why do you pray for people to be saved if it is down to their own free will?"

 

[canadyjd]

What is not being understood? Give at least one Scripture.

I quoted the statement above that is a mischaracterization of what “Calvinist” believe.

It was, in essence, that Calvinist believe God is forbidding people who desire to come to Him in faith to do so.

That is simply untrue.

No one “desires” to come to God in faith unless God first intervenes in their lives.

Hope that clears it up.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

What is misunderstood about the DoG

…….

I can't think of a better excuse in the world than I was born unable to believe without a miracle and God withheld that miracle from me.

Astonishingly, you keep making that same argument after folks have pointed you to Romans 9:19-20 on numerous occasions.

Your argument is answered by the Apostle Paul…, I have nothing to add.

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

No one “desires” to come to God in faith unless God first intervenes in their lives.

AMEN! Christ's Sheep Have Eternal Life NOW

 

[Silverhair]

Astonishingly, you keep making that same argument after folks have pointed you to Romans 9:19-20 on numerous occasions.

Your argument is answered by the Apostle Paul…, I have nothing to add.

peace to you

If that is your best argument for the DoG it is no wonder that people reject it. Your DoG does not equate to the character of God that we see in the bible.

Astonishingly, you keep making that same argument after it has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions that Romans 9:19-20 does not help your argument. Context is not the friend of Calvinists so I can understand why you avoid it.

Then perhaps you should trust what Paul wrote
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
1Co 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

The reality of Calvinist theology is this:
For the absolutely elect must have been saved without him;
and the non-elect cannot be saved by him.

 

[JD731]

We preach salvation in Jesus, we don't know who will be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Some say "Why do you pray for people to be saved if God fas decided?" I ask the same "Why do you pray for people to be saved if it is down to their own free will?"

I would like to present an account of a prayer for other people that will highlight a prayer for others of why pray that men will get saved. This quote of the prayer of Jesus Christ is on crucifixion eve.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
:6 have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

The word "for" is a conjunction in the English language building on and explaining what has already been said.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

The word "they" is a pronoun and the antecedent has been established in the text as his apostles. They received his words and his person, save one.

There is recorded in this chapter the actions of the God man. He gave the apostles something. Eleven of the 12 received what he gave. They believed what he said about the words he had given.

Received and believed are action verbs. They describe what they did as a result of what God did. The apostle who chose not to receive his words and believe the Father had sent him is contrasted with these 11 apostles. His decision caused him to oppose Jesus and work against him and the other disciples.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

One of the things that is confirmed in this prayer is that God is pleased by faith in his words, something that is sadly lacking by some on this forum.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Verse 20. Believe on me through their word, which is the gospel, something that had never been preached at that time and was not believed by these apostles at the first.