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I don't know what you mean by "traditionally." What tradition?

What poll was that?

Or it could be that our culture war culture is imposing rigid male/female stereotypes upon children when most children don't actually fit the stereotypes. Moreover, we have had a long-lasting breakdown in the community where children don't have as many healthy role models of both genders. If a boy is not like his father (or father-figure), then what might he conclude? If a girl is not like her mother (or female role model), then what might she conclude?

I was simply pointing you to Jesus (take a look at His teaching and how He handled things), like most Christian sermons do. You took it as some sort of attack on your faith. You claimed you were "already there," as if you don't need to discover anything more about Jesus.

My apologies if that hurt your feelings.

 

I know enough to recognize you are repeating the unscientific, unbiblical claim that “gender” is something different than “biological sex”.

That is a very recent teaching of the radical trans crowd design to confuse our young people.

That might work on uninformed teenagers in your classes, but I see clearly what you are spewing.

peace to you

 

Maybe you could list a few of those “rigid male/female stereotypes” that are being imposed on our children.

Please explain how exposing our children to radical trans ideology is going to help our children as they come to terms with those rigid stereotypes.

peace to you

 

NBC news, May, 2017: 20% of millennials identify as ltgbq+++.

The frequency of these groups in any society is usually (traditionally) 1-3 %. For trans it’s a fraction of 1%.

This is a direct result of the indoctrination of our youth into this radical ideology.

Thete are other studies easy to find.

Peace to you

 

I don't believe that so you can be certain I am not "repeating" or making that claim. As usual, you are jumping to conclusions and making unwarranted accusations. If you continue your pattern, you will now pretend to be a victim of my response to your false accusation.

Lovely. Another baseless and defamatory accusation. Don't you get tired of being that kind of person?

 

For boys, the toxic masculinity that requires a love of sports, hunting, aggression against others, and spending time with women only for purposes of sex. For women, discouraging women from pursuing traditionally "male" careers, pushing traditional domesticity, making women responsible for the sexual abuse of men.

I don't promote "radical trans ideology" (whatever that is). I'm simply promoting the way of Jesus.

 

I did a little bit of searching for your statistic... Are you referring to the GLAAD survey? Don't you think there might be bias in their methods? Why are you accepting it as gospel?

You keep using the words "traditional" and "traditionally" without defining it. What are your "traditional" statistics based upon?

You tend to be very skeptical of what I post, so I would rather use statistics you find acceptable. However, if you have been quoting a GLAAD survey, I think you should find better studies.

 

Do you believe biological sex and “gender” are two different things?

From your post #33

Scientifically, the XX and XY are determinative of biological sex (please don’t mention rare genetic disorders). There is absolutely no dispute on this point.

You said there is “significant doubt” the XX and XY determine “gender”.

So I ask again, are you saying “gender” and biological sex are two different things… or….

Are you claiming there is “significant doubt” among scientists that XX and XY are determinative of biological sex?

peace to you

 

I don't make a distinction between gender and biological sex. But I do make a distinction between XX and XY chromosomes and external genitalia - they do not always correspond in the currently expected ways. I also recognize that both are more complicated and have more deviations than most seem to recognize. This is a fallen world and things are not the way they are supposed to be. Why should this sort of thing surprise us?

Who says there is no dispute? You? I was told about it in a conversation a few years back with a Christian friend of mine who had just earned a masters degree in biology, with a significant genetics component. FWIW, he's not an LBGTQ+ crusader, although he doesn't hate them either.

And "rare" disorders are not unusual as one might think. As a person who had a rare disease (Cushing's Disease), I get kind of irritated when folks dismiss unusual situations as "rare" and that those situations are not worth considering when laying down rules and laws. It is unjust. Jesus would leave the 99 to go save the one. Who are we to dismiss the 1% (or more) of the population?

Yes, that's what I said.

Does having a Y chromosome make someone a man? | Intersex Society of North America

More Women Than Expected Are Genetically Men - Novo Nordisk Fonden

 

Thanks for sharing the link.

We will never agree in this. I believe science has been corrupted by radical political ideology which results in absolute nonsense such as XX and XY doesn’t determine gender.

I’m bowing out. Good night

peace to you

 

Exactly who is “requiring” boys to love sports, hunting and aggression against others?

Exactly who is discouraging women from pursuing traditionally “male” careers (whatever that means)

Exactly who is making women responsible for the sexual abuse by men?

Oh wait, if a 12 year old girl is sexually assaulted in a school bathroom by a boy wearing a skirt, then she’s transphobic and lets arrest her father for complaining the school board is covering it up.

What do you say to that girl and her father? Remember, this isn’t a made up hypothetical, this already happened!

What do you say to the young woman who has spent a lifetime training for swim meets, only to have her award go to a man who decided his senior year to compete as a woman! Remember! This isn’t a hypothetical., this has already happened!!

For all your assumed “toxic masculinity” in our culture it appears the war on women is being conducted by the radical left trans community and those who make excuses for them.

peace to you

 

And many parents have gotten involved. The Dems are targeting them with threats from the FBI and other agencies to shut them up.

This will be a defining moment in this country. The momma bears are out in force to protect their kids and they will not be intimidated.

And some complain about Christians being involved in “culture wars” while they are themselves very involved in those same culture wars by spreading the radical lefts propaganda about sex and gender being different things and making excuses for vile conduct. All the while claiming they are following Jesus as they attack Christians for taking a stand to protect their kids.

peace to you

 

Why do you assert this?

It can’t be because of me. I’m quite open to changing my mind when new facts come to my attention. The only way you can be certain that we will “never” agree is if you are close-minded to new information.

This is simply an assertion. You have decided you won’t believe research that doesn’t match what you may have learned in your high school biology class however many years ago. Genetics is a rapidly growing area of knowledge. The simplistic models we were all taught in high school are not all that can be known, nor were they completely accurate.

If our understanding of the biblical message is true, we have nothing to fear from new information. When new information conflicts with our beliefs, we have to re-evaluate our religious and scientific opinions and determine if there is enough new, verifiable evidence requiring us to modify our beliefs. Refusal to consider new evidence is not a sign of faithfulness, but rather, a sign of closemindedness.

I don’t demand that you believe that XX and XY may or may not result in the development of traditionally corresponding genitalia (which is what I have been saying), but I want you to be aware of it because responsible Christians speaking on these issues should know the current scientific evidence.

But you didn’t.

For me, everyone in the church where I grew up and in the school system where I went to school, K-12. You were not considered a “real man” unless you fit that profile. If you didn’t fit that profile, you were often accused of being gay (although, expressed in terms unsuitable for this board or Christian speech in general). And if you were accused of being gay, it made one the target of organized bullying (no matter what one’s sexual orientation actually was).

The Southern Baptist figure, Paige Leighton Patterson (feminine first and middle names) has been quite vocal about this in Southern Baptist life, and some of that attitude has made its way into The Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, as well as the Men’s Wild Game Banquets held at Baptist churches all over. Please note, I have nothing against hunting and wild game. I enjoy venison and a few other game meets, but I get no thrill out of killing any creature (deer, fish, bird, spider, etc.). I don’t hesitate if it needs to be done, but my “manhood” and self-worth has nothing to do with it.

There are plenty of examples if you have eyes to see it.

In my life, the high school counselor would advise teen girls not to pursue careers but to find husbands quickly. And if they wanted a career, they were limited to nurse, teacher, or retail management (mid-level) – this was in the mid-1980s.

For the past two decades, I have worked in the architecture, engineering, and construction field, and women face a lot of obstacles in what is still a male-dominated field. Much of it comes from men who resent that “women are trying to be men.”

The whole “purity culture” movement that dominates “conservative” churches. Women are seen to be the enemy to a man’s virtue simply by being in proximity to them. The so-called “Billy Graham rule” has been twisted from the original context (people were allegedly trying to set up Billy Graham for a scandal within a very different cultural milieu) into never allowing a man to be in the same confined space (usually a room or automobile) alone with a woman who is not that man’s wife. Instead of it being a specific individual response to what was likely a valid concern, it has morphed into a legalism that assumes men are predators and women cannot be trusted. That’s a sub-Christian assumption.

In a men’s discipleship group I am in, one of the younger men complained about the revealing clothing he saw on the college girls he was around for part of the day. He claimed it was making him stumble. Purity culture would agree with his assessment, but Jesus would not. Jesus gave instructions to “pluck out one’s eyes” if one wanted to claim that what one saw caused them to sin (Matthew 18:9). Certainly women need to take responsibility for what they do, but they are not responsible for men objectifying them or abusing them.

EXACTLY who are these persons? This comes across as being a passive-aggressive way referring to me, since you have already made this false accusation before in this thread. If so, it is a vile false accusation, just like many of the other vile false accusations you have made in this thread and never apologized for.

And AGAIN, I don't claim "sex and gender [are] different things." You are pulling that out of your imagination and ignoring what I have said to the contrary.

It is hard to take you seriously about moral issues when you constantly make false allegations against me.

 

You forget. By reading BB's rsponses, BB is a liberal first and foremost. IMHO

 

Leftists only follow science when they think it supports their ideology.

 

Remember. IMHO BB is leftist first and foremost.

 

BB sounds like a radical feminist. IMHO, BB is first and foremost a leftist liberal.

 

It seems you are looking at one situation and saying we should deal with all the evil of that ideology in the same way. That is just foolish. We have to confront this evil or we loose our children. We have way to many "christians" that want to just get along with the world. Why pop your head up so you can get shot.

Ask yourself what would Christ have said to those that want to destroy our children with the Gay ideology?

 

Actually I'm a disciple of Jesus, whatever that means to you. I suspect that you might think that the Jesus revealed in the gospels is a "liberal" and "leftist," from your extremist perspective.

 

Actually, exactly the opposite. Every situation is different. What some here are proposing is a blanket attack on all trans persons, claiming they are groomers and out to molest children. I'm just pointing out that gender dysphoria has many sources, some of them have biological roots. It is reductionistic and immoral to claim cases of gender dysphoria is necessarily "mental illness" and/or a malicious rejection of God.

I agree completely. It is foolish to attempt to pass laws against persons experience gender dysphoria.

Our children recognize that this hysterical fear about trans persons is the product of manipulation by right-wing political and media figures. Persons who believe and promote this stuff have already lost credibility with the younger generations.

Yes. Many Christians go along with this paranoia and fear because the pastor and everyone else in their congregation seems to go along with it.

True. It takes courage. You'll have people attack you, call you a "leftist" and accuse you of wanting children to be molested. It's a heavy burden, but if we are dedicated to speaking the truth -- even when it irritates our church family -- it is something we have to do.

He would first probably first wonder why we are suddenly referencing "gay ideology" when we have been talking about the plight of trans persons. Second, He would probably confront the assertion that those who want to be truthful are also those who want to "destroy our children." I don't think it would go the way you imagine.