Bought then Redeemed

[Van]

Then show some integrity and explain the 'if':
Is this the gospel of Vanology?:
'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and God might save you.'

Once again a question carries the implication of I not saved. This sort of behavior is unacceptable according to forum rules.
Did God credit the faith of those who said, Lord, Lord in Matthew 7:21?
Did God credit the faith of the second and third soils in Matthew 13?

Have I not explained the "if" dozens of times? You bet! God alone determines whose faith He will credit as righteousness, and scripture teaches superficial faith with no root or not treasuring Christ over the treasures of this world were not credited, see Matthew 13.

 

[kyredneck]

Once again a question carries the implication of I not saved.

What were you implying here?:

Anytime the godless left charges their opponents

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did God credit the faith of those who said, Lord, Lord in Matthew 7:21?

Faith is not in the context of Mt 7:21. The context is false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing, bad trees and bad fruit. Of course, He never knew them.

Did God credit the faith of the second and third soils in Matthew 13?

All the soils 'heard', and that means something. I think all the soils mentioned could belong to the Lord.

 

[kyredneck]

<double post>

 

[Van]

What were you implying here?:

Faith is not in the context of Mt 7:21. The context is false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing, bad trees and bad fruit. Of course, He never knew them.

All the soils 'heard', and that means something. I think all the soils mentioned could belong to the Lord.

1) I did not imply anything, I stated a fact.
2) Lip service faith of those saying "Lord, Lord" is the context of Matthew 7:21.
3) Here we see a "run from doctrine" claim as the lost are unable to hear the gospel due to total spiritual inability. Total spiritual inability asserts the lost can neither hear, understand nor believe the gospel unless "enabled" by irresistible grace.

 

[percho]

I have always thought God the Father credits, the faith OF Christ, as my righteousness.

for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.

 

[kyredneck]

People are saved when and if God credits their faith as righteousness.

Have I not explained the "if" dozens of times?

I know that this is all about your obsession to stamp out Calvinism from the face of the Earth by finding that final devastating blow from the Bible, but this ain't it.

How do you present the gospel to someone? What do you tell them? Do you include your 'if'' in your formula? What modifications are made to include your 'if'?:

Bible:
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house. Acts 16

Vanology:
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou might get saved, thou and thy house. Acts 16

 

[kyredneck]

Bible:
9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved: Ro 10

Vanology:
9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou might get saved: Ro 10

 

[Van]

I know that this is all about your obsession to stamp out Calvinism from the face of the Earth by finding that final devastating blow from the Bible, but this ain't it.

How do you present the gospel to someone? What do you tell them? Do you include your 'if'' in your formula? What modifications are made to include your 'if'?:

Bible:
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house. Acts 16

Vanology:
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou might get saved, thou and thy house. Acts 16

First, anyone who claims to be a mind reader is not credible.
I am all about presenting God's truth, not a man-made rewrite that does not stand up under study.
Next, a subject changing question is hoisted. Obfuscation on display.
Of course we are to present the actual gospel, which means God asks us to go "all in" for God, we are love Him with all our heart, all our soul and all our mind, Matthew 22:37.
Certainly if we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ we will be saved, the issue is who decides whether we believe or not. The Bible say God decides, and man-centered doctrine say humans decide. .

 

[taisto]

First, anyone who claims to be a mind reader is not credible.
I am all about presenting God's truth, not a man-made rewrite that does not stand up under study.

Really? You give your own rewrite of Bible verses quite often. People have shown you your error in translation and you reject them, even though some of them teach Greek at university.

Next, a subject changing question is hoisted. Obfuscation on display.

Where? Often, you change the subject.

Of course we are to present the actual gospel, which means God asks us to go "all in" for God, we are love Him with all our heart, all our soul and all our mind, Matthew 22:37.

The actual gospel is that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father, except through Christ Jesus.
Your reference is not in regard to the gospel. It is in regard to fulfilling the law.

And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
(Matthew 22:37-40)

Certainly if we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ we will be saved, the issue is who decides whether we believe or not. The Bible say God decides, and man-centered doctrine say humans decide. .

We agree.
God chooses to save whomever He wills at whatever time He wills. Man's faith, before salvation, plays no part in God's election of whom He saves. Election is before the foundation of the world, not based on the quality of one's faith. We believe because God has chosen to save us by grace alone. (Ephesians 2:1-9)

 

[Van]

Really? You give your own rewrite of Bible verses quite often. People have shown you your error in translation and you reject them, even though some of them teach Greek at university.

Note my behavior, claimed to be bad, is addressed. I provide my interpretation of the verse, as the meaning of the inspired word. I do not change the inspired word, as reflected in the NKJV, NASB, NET, and World English Bible (WEB).

Where? Often, you change the subject.

Again, I am charged with the poster's maleficence.

The actual gospel is that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father, except through Christ Jesus.
Your reference is not in regard to the gospel. It is in regard to fulfilling the law.

To go "all in" for Christ, is not a works based OT law requirement, see Matthew 22:37. Jesus is Yahweh, God the Son, and we are to fully commit to Him as Lord and Savior.

Man's faith, before salvation, plays no part in God's election of whom He saves. Election is before the foundation of the world, not based on the quality of one's faith. We believe because God has chosen to save us by grace alone. (Ephesians 2:1-9)

We disagree as 2 Thessalonians 2:13 say our faith is utilized in our election, thus a conditional election on the basis of God crediting our faith, or not, in Christ.

 

[taisto]

Note my behavior, claimed to be bad, is addressed. I provide my interpretation of the verse, as the meaning of the inspired word. I do not change the inspired word, as reflected in the NKJV, NASB, NET, and World English Bible (WEB).
Again, I am charged with the poster's maleficence.
To go "all in" for Christ, is not a works based OT law requirement, see Matthew 22:37. Jesus is Yahweh, God the Son, and we are to fully commit to Him as Lord and Savior.

We disagree as 2 Thessalonians 2:13 say our faith is utilized in our election, thus a conditional election on the basis of God crediting our faith, or not, in Christ.

You misinterpret 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and remove grace from salvation.

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(2 Thessalonians 2:13-14)

God chose first.

The phrase "through sanctification (setting apart) by the Spirit and belief in the truth" shows us that God chooses first, he sets us apart, and He causes us to believe in the truth.
This is what God called you to.

Your imagined condition makes your gospel graceless. It is your teaching that is in err, Van.

 

[Van]

You misinterpret 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and remove grace from salvation.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 actually says. God chose individuals for salvation through faith in the truth. You remove Romans 4:16 from
salvation through faith. Faith is according to grace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[taisto]

2 Thessalonians 2:13 actually says. God chose individuals for salvation through faith in the truth. You remove Romans 4:16 from
salvation through faith. Faith is according to grace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is certainly your version of what it says. However, no one else, in any commentary I have ever read, has that interpretation. Would you care to explain why no Christian in over 2000 years shares your opinion?

Salvation by Grace causes faith through which we believe and persevere.

 

[Van]

That is certainly your version of what it says. However, no one else, in any commentary I have ever read, has that interpretation. Would care to explain why no Christian in over 2000 years shares your opinion?

You do not need a published commentator to just read the verse. You claim to know what it does not say, but have you explained what it does say?

Commentary claimed not to exist:
When the Thessalonians first believed and obeyed the truth (gospel), they were chosen by God. Often, people are mistaken in thinking the beginning refers to the beginning of creation; however, Paul could not mean creation because he said they were chosen from "belief of the truth" and that God called them by the gospel (2:14).​

 

[taisto]

You do not need a published commentator to just read the verse. You claim to know what it does not say, but have you explained what it does say?

Commentary claimed not to exist:
When the Thessalonians first believed and obeyed the truth (gospel), they were chosen by God. Often, people are mistaken in thinking the beginning refers to the beginning of creation; however, Paul could not mean creation because he said they were chosen from "belief of the truth" and that God called them by the gospel (2:14).​

Your right. That's why I don't need your comment. I read the verse on my own. Then I read others and I find that no one agrees with you.
So, if you have no one who agrees with you that is a red flag for your interpretation.

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(2 Thessalonians 2:13-14)
I read it over and over again and it doesn't read according to your interpretation.

 

[Van]

Your right. That's why I don't need your comment. I read the verse on my own. Then I read others and I find that no one agrees with you.
So, if you have no one who agrees with you that is a red flag for your interpretation.

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(2 Thessalonians 2:13-14)
I read it over and over again and it doesn't read according to your interpretation.

Personal incredulity is fallacious argumentation.

 

[taisto]

Personal incredulity is fallacious argumentation.

Your arguments are, indeed, fallacious. I am glad you can recognize this.

Until you can document others in the Christian community holding your views, your arguments will be fallacious.
Red flag.

 

[Van]

Your arguments are, indeed, fallacious. I am glad you can recognize this.

Until you can document others in the Christian community holding your views, your arguments will be fallacious.
Red flag.

Unless others agree, an argument is fallacious? That is a fallacious argument against truth.
Does this person say what the correct biblical position is? Nope

Here is the view: 2 Peter 2:1 says those heading for swift destruction were bought by our Master. This poster claims no one believes Christ died for humanity, those to be saved and those never to be saved. That of course is a fiction.

Ransomed, does not mean redeemed, as paying the price for the right to release is not the same as release.

Thus Christ died as a ransom for all, but only those transferred spiritually into Christ are redeemed. The gospel of Christ

 

[taisto]

Unless others agree, an argument is fallacious? That is a fallacious argument against truth.
Does this person say what the correct biblical position is? Nope

Here is the view: 2 Peter 2:1 says those heading for swift destruction were bought by our Master. This poster claims no one believes Christ died for humanity, those to be saved and those never to be saved. That of course is a fiction.

Ransomed, does not mean redeemed, as paying the price for the right to release is not the same as release.

Thus Christ died as a ransom for all, but only those transferred spiritually into Christ are redeemed. The gospel of Christ

Read what I actually wrote and then read what you creatively interpreted.
When no one agrees with you and there is over 2000 years where no one agrees with you, it HAS to be a red flag.

You have no one agreeing with you, for the past 2000 years plus. Doesn't that mean anything to you?

Does 2 Peter 2:1 Deny Effectual Atonement?

Van, you can believe whatever you want. Just don't think everyone else is wrong when everyone else disagrees with you.

 

[37818]

@taisto

2 Peter 2:1, ". . . But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. . . ."

Primary cross reference.

Jude 1:4, ". . . For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."