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Featured Satan Murdered Jesus - The Scripture and Theology

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Arthur King, Oct 18, 2023.

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  1. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    There is much confusion on this board about the clear witness of Scripture and Theological tradition to the fact that Satan murdered Jesus on the cross.

    Yes, Jesus' death was ordained by God. God is sovereign, and can ordain events in which sins and injustices take place without himself being the agent of sin or unjust. Yes, Jesus went to his death voluntarily. Yes, Jesus' death was also the work of sinful humans both Jew and Gentile, including you and me. But Satan also was there, committing murder against Jesus on the cross.

    SCRIPTURE

    -Jesus is explicit that the devil is a murderer who seeks to kill him. He says in John 8:

    "You are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him.

    -John 13:2 is a helpful verse for understanding how the devil orchestrated the crucifixion, and yet it was an event ordained by God, and Jesus went to his death voluntarily:

    "During supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him, 3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God, 4 got up from supper, and laid aside His garments; and taking a towel, He girded Himself."

    -In both Luke 22:3 and John 13:27, the gospel writers describe how "Satan entered into Judas" to betray Jesus into the hands of his enemies.

    -In John 14:30, Jesus describes his crucifixion as "the coming of the ruler of this world."

    -These data points from the gospels fit into the larger Scriptural narrative that begins with Genesis 3:15, which says that the child of the woman would strike the head of the serpent, but the serpent would strike the heal of the son. The Son and the serpent simultaneously deliver fatal wounds to one another - and this is precisely what we see happen on the cross.

    -Revelation 12 also says

    "Behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. 4 And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child."


    -There are other narratives that also re-inforce the crucifixion narrative being the work of Satan. Jesus is the new Abel, and the NT explicitly connects Jesus' shed blood to that of Abel's. Abel was murdered by Cain who was mastered by "the beast crouching at his door," a clear allusion to the serpent.

    -Acts 28 also gives us a narrative of a cruciform shape:

    • Just as Paul was bitten by the serpent, so also Jesus was murdered by the devil.
    • Just as onlookers mistakenly believed that justice killed Paul for being guilty, so also onlookers mistakenly believed that Jesus was justly killed by God.
    • Just as Paul’s immunity to the serpent revealed his innocence, so also Jesus’ resurrection from death revealed his innocence.
    • Just as Paul lives after suffering what should be a fatal wound, so also Jesus rises after suffering a fatal wound.
    • Just as Paul shakes the serpent off into the fire, so also Jesus throws the devil into hell.

    -Scripture is explicit that the death of Christ resulted in Satan losing the power of death he once had, and that his death brought judgment upon the devil. See Hebrews 2:14-15

    Therefore, since the children share in blood and flesh, [Jesus] Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.


    Who had the power of death? The devil. How was the devil rendered powerless? The death of Jesus. This is also why 1 John says directly and succinctly, “The Son of God appeared for this purpose: to destroy the works of the devil” (1 John 3:8). Notice as well that Jesus also says that his death is an act of judgment, but Jesus says it is judgment upon the devil. See John 12:31-33:

    Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.” 33 Now He was saying this to indicate what kind of death He was going to die.

    A good question that naturally arises is why, then, the devil would continually tempt Jesus to save himself from the cross. The answer is that Satan wanted Jesus to fail, to sin against God, to forsake God before he killed him. We have seen torturers throughout history try to force their victims to give up their loyalties before killing them.

    THEOLOGY

    That Satan killed Jesus has been the understanding of major theologians throughout history.

    Augustine:

    What then is the justice that overpowered the devil? The justice of Jesus Christ—what else? And how was he overpowered? The devil found nothing in Christ deserving of death and yet he killed him. It is therefore perfectly just that the devil should let the debtors he held go free, who believe in the one whom he killed without his being in his debt. This is how we are said to be justified in the blood of Christ. This is how that innocent blood was shed for the forgiveness of our sins.

    John Chrysostom:

    “It is as if Christ said, ‘Now shall a trial be held, and a judgment be pronounced. How and in what manner? He (the devil) smote the first man (Adam), because he found him guilty of sin; for it was through sin that death entered in. But he did not find any sin in Me; wherefore then did he fall on Me and give Me up to the power of death? . . . How is the world now judged in Me?’ It is as if it were said to the devil at a seat of judgment: ‘Thou didst smite them all, because thou didst find them guilty of sin; wherefore then didst thou smite Christ? Is it not evident that thou didst this wrongfully? Therefore the whole world shall become righteous through Him.’”

    Caesarius of Arles:

    Therefore with the Devil hurrying about working through Judas, through the kings of the earth and through the princes of the Jews, who “came together as one” to Pilate “against the Lord and against his Christ,” Christ was condemned to death; an innocent man was condemned just as the prophet says in the Psalm: “But the righteous man, what has he done?” And again, “They will seek against the spirit of the righteous and will condemn innocent blood;” the man guilty of not even a trivial sin is condemned, since the serpent was able to leave no trace in this rock...The innocent man is crucified without sin. The Devil is made guilty by the death of an innocent man; the Devil is made guilty by bringing the cross upon a righteous man who owed nothing . . . “You are no longer able to hold man in endless death, for he conquered, overcame and crushed you through me. You were not truly conquered through power, but by justice; not by domination, by rather by equity.” Thus the Enemy vomited up what he had gulped down and justly there was taken away from him what he used to hold, since unjustly he dared to infringe upon that which under no arrangement was his concern.

    Thomas Aquinas:

    “Christ's Passion delivered us from the devil, inasmuch as in Christ's Passion [the devil] exceeded the limit of power assigned him by God, by conspiring to bring about Christ's death, Who, being sinless, did not deserve to die. Hence Augustine says (De Trin. xiii, cap. xiv): "The devil was vanquished by Christ's justice: because, while discovering in Him nothing deserving of death, nevertheless he slew Him. And it is certainly just that the debtors whom he held captive should be set at liberty since they believed in Him whom the devil slew, though He was no debtor."

    CS Lewis:

    “when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor’s stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backward.”

    In conclusion: on the cross, Satan murdered Jesus.
     
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    @Arthur King
    I really can't believe you still want to keep flogging this thing to death.
    It is as I suspected; you've been reading too much of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
    I have answered most, if not all of the points you have made here on another thread, but I suppose I'm going to have to dredge it all up again for you.
    I am busy with more serious stuff until after the weekend, but then I will reply to your post point by point.
     
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  3. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    CS Lewis got his ideas for The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe from The Bible, Augustine, John Chrysostom, Aquinas, etc.
     
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Note the use of the word "ordain." What does "ordain" mean? Predestine! If God predestines sin or injustice, God is the cause of that sin or injustice. To claim otherwise is to engage in cognitive dissonance. (Which is to hold to two mutually exclusive views.)

    Act 2:23
    this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
     
  5. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    So, are you disagreeing with the Bible, or what? You just quoted a verse that says people sinned in an event that was predetermined in the foreknowledge of God, so I think your problem is with the Bible on this one.
     
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks to telling me what I believe, and keeping your view hidden.
    Ordained means predestined.
    God put Christ to the death by His "predetermined plan formulated beforehand."

    To say Satan murdered Jesus is to be "disagreeing with the Bible." Acts 2:23
     
  7. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    I am not following you at all. Sorry. What are you arguing?
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Ordained means predestined.
    God put Christ to the death by His "predetermined plan formulated beforehand."

    To say Satan murdered Jesus is to be "disagreeing with the Bible." Acts 2:23
     
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Van,

    Please quote the verse you are speaking of and bold the past where God put Jesus to death.


    It seems we all agree that Christ's suffering and death was God's predetermined plan. And we all agree He was "pleased to crush Him". It was God's will that Christ give Himself as an offering.

    There have been many passages describing Christ's death, while being God's predetermined plan, as "sin", "evil", done by "wicked men" and "evil doers".

    But I have missed the ones stating that God killed Jesus.
     
  10. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    Are you saying that because God predestined Jesus' death, that therefore sinners (humans and Satan) did NOT put Jesus to death?

    Would you also say, for example, that because God predestined Joseph would go down to Egypt, that Joseph's brothers did NOT sinfully and unjustly betray him into the hands of traders?
     
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  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    That 'the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience' that crucified Christ was deeply involved is also apparent with Peter's denial, and not only Judas's betrayal, albeit with 'permission' (Judas was a child of the devil so no permission required):

    31 Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat: Lu 22

    30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. Jn 14

    Who came? Who appeared on the scene? How was this 'prince' manifested in this temporal realm?

    3 Judas then, having received the band of soldiers, and officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons. Jn 18

    2 saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses seat:
    13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye enter not in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter.
    14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows` houses, even while for a pretence ye make long prayers: therefore ye shall receive greater condemnation.
    33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?
    34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
    35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23

    3 And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst,
    13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest witness of thyself; thy witness is not true.
    22 The Jews therefore said, Will he kill himself, that he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come?
    44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. Jn 8

    7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Mt 3

    70 Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil?
    71 Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. Jn 6
     
    #11 kyredneck, Oct 19, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2023
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  12. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    That is not what it means... If it is you are accusing God of sin... He didn't stop it either!... If he did you would be an atheist corpse laying in a coffin in a three piece suit with one place to go!... Brother Glen:eek:

    Matthew 26: 53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

    54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
     
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  13. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    Looking forward to it. But in our last exchange, your central argument was one of interpretation, not of what the Bible actually said. You were basically saying "I can't reconcile these verses that say Satan murdered Jesus with these verse that say Satan was tempting Jesus to fail in his mission on the cross, so I am just going to ignore the verses that say Satan murdered Jesus."

    In other words, you were using your interpretation to determine Scripture, rather than Scripture to determine your interpretation.
     
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  14. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Well that's a funny thing, because I would say exactly the same thing about you.
     
  15. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    On my side, I have Jesus explicitly saying that the devil is a murderer seeking to kill him. As well as all the other data I posted. So...yeah.

    If your argument is "But I don't see how it would make sense for Satan to seek to kill Jesus" then that is something you are going to have to take up with Jesus himself. He is the one who said it.
     
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  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...AND it was God that told the devil that he would bruise Christ! Genesis 3:14-15

    But @Martin Marprelate says, 'Nope, God was wrong, Satan didn't do it'.
     
  17. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    Yes, although "bruise" is a bad translation. @Martin Marprelate and I actually agree "strike" is a better translation.

    The point is that the serpent causes a fatal wound to the Son at the same time he suffers a fatal wound from the Son. As Hebrews 2:14 makes explicit, the death of Christ disarms the devil of his power of death.
     
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  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Penal Substitution Atonement Theory - Question
     
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Very true.

    What amazes me is that this is a very literal meaning. It is obvious, and was obvious to Christians until the Reformation. The fact that it seems so foreign to some today, even when it is directly expressed In God's Word, is astonishing.


    Reading this thread I have felt like I was in a twilight zone episode.

    We have had members outright rejecting points that are actually quoted Scripture.

    We have had some stating a verse explicitly states one thing, even providing the verse, but the verse says nothing like what is claimed to be explicitly stated.

    Why? Because it is foreign to their ears and does not support their theology. But the strange thing is that they don't see it at all.....even when they post Scripture contradicting what they read it to say.

    It is strange.
     
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  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Reading this thread I have felt like I was in a twilight zone episode.

    We have had members outright rejecting points that are actually quoted Scripture.

    We have had some stating a verse explicitly states one thing, even providing the verse, but the verse says nothing like what is claimed to be explicitly stated.

    Why? Because it is foreign to their ears and does not support their theology. But the strange thing is that they don't see it at all.....even when they post Scripture contradicting what they read it to say.

    It is strange. :Tongue
     
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