Featured Satan Murdered Jesus - The Scripture and Theology

Did I say God is not the cause of the sin He allows? Yes, so did I suggest other agents are causal? Yes. Why not address my actual view?

Next you say, rightly people still commit murder with God's sovereignly [caused or allowed] history. You are agreeing with me but using "ordained" which means one thing to one poster and another thing to another poster. I inserted R.C. Sproul's definition of "ordained."

I did not make it impossible to sin. I made their sin not authored by God.

My view is consistent with all scripture.

John 8 says people were trying to kill (murder) Jesus. Not in dispute.

John 13:2 says Satan entered Judas. Not in dispute.

What is in dispute is that God (both the Father and the Son) caused Christ's death, not wicked people or Satan. They were accessories to His death.

 

@Martin Marprelate; @canadyjd; @37818; @Van

The Scripture makes no bones about who killed Christ:

1 Thess 2
14 For ye, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judaea in Christ Jesus: for ye also suffered the same things of your own countrymen, even as they did of the Jews;
15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove out us, and pleased not God, and are contrary to all men;

Acts 2:
…. they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance…Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth… ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay…God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified. Acts 2:4,22,23,36

Acts 3:
…Peter… answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel… his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him… ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you, and killed the Prince of life… whereof we are witnesses. Acts 3:12-15

Acts 4:
…Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders… be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified… Acts 4:8,10

Acts 5:
… they set them before the council…. ye have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and intend to bring this man`s blood upon us…. Peter and the apostles answered and said… The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree… we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit Acts 5:27,28,29,30,32

Acts 6 & 7:
…there arose certain of them that were of the synagogue called the synagogue of the Libertines, and of the Cyrenians, and of the Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and Asia, disputing with Stephen. And they were not able to withstand the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spake….Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? and they killed them that showed before of the coming of the Righteous One; of whom ye have now become betrayers and murderers; Acts 6:9,10; Acts 7:51,52

Acts 10:
…we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom also they slew, hanging him on a tree…. Him God raised up the third day, and gave him to be made manifest, not to all the people, but unto witnesses that were chosen before of God, even to us, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he charged us to preach unto the people, and to testify that this is he who is ordained of God to be the Judge of the living and the dead. Acts 10: 39-42

Acts 13:
…Paul stood up, and beckoning with the hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, hearken…they that dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath, fulfilled them by condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet asked they of Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all things that were written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a tomb. But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen for many days of them that came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses unto the people. Acts 13:16,27-31

Mt 27:
25 And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

AND...The Scripture makes no bones about these being 'the seed of the serpent':

2 saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses seat:
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye enter not in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows` houses, even while for a pretence ye make long prayers: therefore ye shall receive greater condemnation.
33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?
34 Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:
35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23

3 And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst,
13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest witness of thyself; thy witness is not true.
22 The Jews therefore said, Will he kill himself, that he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come?
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. Jn 8

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Mt 3

70 Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. Jn 6

 

I have answered these questions in prior posts.

1) Was Jesus innocent? Yes. I repeat Yes. Have you got it? The answer is yes. Affirmative.
2) Was Jesus killed by sinners? Yes. Because Jesus allowed them to kill Him. Have you got it.

What you refuse to admit is no one took Christ's life. You want to claim wicked people and Satan took Christ's life, and ignore John 10:18

Wicked people and Satan were accessories to Christ's death.

I

 

It blows my mind that @Martin Marprelate; @canadyjd; @37818; @Van refuse to accept what was basic fundamental 'Bible knowledge', taught in Sunday School and VBS, when I was a child:

Amplified Bible
“And I will put enmity (open hostility) Between you and the woman, And between your seed (offspring) and her Seed; He shall [fatally] bruise your head, And you shall [only] bruise His heel.”

 

I see the verse you quoted supports the repeated statements from those you mentioned that the Genesis passage makes the distinction between a non fatal strike to the heel (of the seed of woman) and the fatal strike to the head of the serpent.

And so, let your mind be “unblown” because we agree on the passage.

Your mind should be blown that @JonC and @Arthur King refuse to accept (as you said) what was basic fundamental Bible knowledge that we were taught and what @JonC said in support of you post (inadvertently referring to himself).

peace to you

 

“Non-fatal” in the sense that the grave could not contain Him, GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

 

The passage from Genesis, in context, doesn’t mention the resurrection. You were correct the first time. Non fatal blow to the heel contrasted with fatal blow to the head.

That was, in fact, the point God was making when He said it.

Please give credence to @JonC’s warning not to develop theories and vain philosophies and then go to scripture to find support for them.

Just believe what Gid said, and what we were taught in SS. Satan’s strike to the heel is non fatal. The strike to the head of Satan is fatal. That is the point God was making.

peace to you

 

You should read KRN’s post #146 (which you quoted and appeared to agree with by claiming you saw it as a common problem today) Everything I stated was in response to that post.

The commentary quoted clearly refers to the Genesis passage as making a distinction between a non fatal blow to the heel compared to a fatal blow to the head.

The statement was that this was taught in SS and was “basis” and “fundamental” Bible knowledge. You reject that teaching.

Did you just post something without reading the preceding posts? No wonder you are confused about the flow of the conversation. You really should read the posts before you accuse someone of saying something that is “false”, or did you not consider how it makes you, as a poster and a moderator, look to others?

peace to you

 

Again, you say you agreed with KRN post which included a commentary which clearly states the strike to the heel is non fatal while the strike to the head was fatal. He further stated this was taught in SS and his mind was blown because I, and others rejected it.

So, the truth is evident that I have accepted that the strike to the heel was non fatal and the strike to the head was fatal. That was what was referred to in the post and the commentary.

You claim to believe that as well, and accuse me of making false statements through ignorance or out right lies, and in the next breath reject it claiming both strikes are fatal.

So, to anyone with an IQ above room temperature it is clear that you reject the teaching (referred to as basic, fundamental, taught in SS) that the Genesis passage is making the distinction that the strike to the heel is non fatal and the strike to the head is fatal.

I can only surmise your conflicting statements of accepting/denial is the result of a confused mind that really doesn’t understand the ongoing conversation.

Peace to you

BTW, the sooner the thread is closed, the better for everyone, imo, because the comments have turned personal.

 

Yep! Spot on!

 

The commentaries vary and it could refer to a variety of things. It could refer to Christ’s temptation, persecution of Himself and those that follow Him, His arrest, torture and death are possibilities. It could refer to the assault of demonic forces upon the church. It could refer to all of it.

The arguments have shifted in this thread from “Satan murdered Jesus” to people under the influence of Satan murdered Jesus to sinful people murdered Jesus and since sin entered into the world because of Satan then Satan murdered Jesus.

I do not believe Satan personally murdered Jesus. Scripture says “godless men” and also Jewish leaders. Both Romans and Jewish leaders killed Jesus.

I have acknowledged Satan’s influence of Judas in the betrayal. Jesus says the desire of the Jewish leaders to kill Him comes from them doing the will of Satan, their father, though I don’t believe they were Satan worshippers that received direct instructions from Satan to kill Him. Rather, this was an influence based in their sinful nature.

This whole debate, imo, is centered on views of the atonement, of which we disagree. The posts have gotten personal and are now not edifying to anyone, imo.

I have answered directly and have been civil.

peace to you

 

Pointless denial of the obvious. You want to admit not one took his life and still claim they did take His life.

 

I just love these unspecified "what was taught in Sunday School" as if it presented a position. No one, not even wicked men or Satan took Christ's life. That is what I was taught! But with me you get scripture, John 10:18.

The Genesis verse is not about Christ's death, but about the mechanism of damnation and the mechanism of salvation. Christ's victory was total.

Yes, the Fall resulted in enmity between Satan's offspring, referring to fallen humanity, and her Seed, Jesus. Satan's actions resulted in the Fall, but Christ's action resulted in the means of salvation.