Featured Why Don't Modern Denominations Understand The Rapture

What does that even mean? You don't know what it means. It is not something the scriptures teach. If it appeared in any setting besides a religious setting it would be assumed it came from the mental ward.
It is God the Father who saves us. It is he who sent his Son into the world and who judged him righteous and justified sinners on his account when they come to him in the name of the Lord Jesus. He is judge of all the earth. And it is not by grace alone and faith alone! It by grace through faith. But you, as a Calvinist do not even believe that. You teach that it is by faith through grace by teaching faith is a grace and must be given by God.

Here is what the scriptures says and it is something you reverse to fit your man made doctrines that can't help nobody.

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it (the "it" is righteousness that God requires) is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

If righteousness is not by faith it cannot be by grace. When you say faith is given by God then you make faith the grace of God and turn the scriptures and the explanation of salvation into a senseless proposition.


17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Who quickens the dead? God the Father.

Faith is not a work and it is not the gift of God like is taught by your religion.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he (God) had promised, he (God) was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it (his believing, his faith) was imputed to him (Abraham) for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it (righteousness because of his believing God the Father) )was imputed to him;
24 But for us (us after the cross of Christ) also, to whom it (righteousness) shall be imputed, if we believe on him (God the Father) that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Now watch this amazing statement;

and was raised again for our justification.
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom (by Jesus Christ) also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

We have access by faith into this grace of God wherein he reckons us guiltless on the merits of Christ sinless life and his sacrifice for us. Calvinists and Reformed teaches a perverted view of of faith and grace, among many other things.

Here is my conclusion; if denominational religion cannot get the simple truth of salvation right, which is not a mystery, how can they get the mysteries of God right and understand them. The answer is, they can't. But there is good news. It is not too late to get it right, but you must believe the words of God. The rapture of the church is a mystery and if everyone regardless of their spiritual condition could understand it, it would prove the scriptures unreliable and untrue.Thank God that his word is proven true even through this avenue.

 

I am going to evaluate your entire post in a few words. You, like other commentators who venture here with systematic theologies that have been created by men, usually bearing their own names, cannot defend the doctrines of those systems from the scriptures, on you own and with reason and knowledge and intelligence. The reason you can't is because the scriptures do not teach those things you have adopted and you are left making silly statements as your lone defense for you errors, as you have done above when you are presented with irrevocable truth. This forces you to ignore and abandon any cogent argument from the text and go about to defend them from what you are told from your systems one liners, talking points, or denial of those doctrines that conflict with theirs. The proof that my evaluation is correct is that you did not offer a rebuttal of the clear meaning of the text and doctrine that I presented that exposes your theology to be errant.

Salvation from the penalty of sin, as it is defined in the scriptures, does not include faith as the gift of God in order for sinners to be saved. He willingly gives his truth, his words, to sinners so they may believe and be saved. I will give you as long as you want to find any statement in the scriptures that says the gift of God is faith. Take two weeks if you want, but your search will be in vain.

There is a gift of faith given to certain Christians, but not all, who have been baptized in the body of Christ by the Spirit. These spiritual gifts are enablement's of certain ones in the body as ministry gifts for functioning in the collective body. These gifts are given to those saved people who the Spirit of God has placed in the body at his own discretion. Not all believers have the same spiritual gifts.

I am being tough on you here because you are not using logic, reason, and knowledge in your opposition to the subject. Neither are you using scripture rightly divided.

You can only say your view on the rapture is based on your understanding of the subject in your theological system. Your views are based on that system and you do not understand the meaning of several great Bible doctrines because the system has them wrong.

I encourage you to forsake Calvinism as a corrupt system and begin to study on you own with a heart for truth, asking God to show you what to believe. He will do it but you will need to learn to believe his words.


Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him (God the Father) that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Believing God glorifies him! The words in the scriptures are the source of the knowledge of God for us and are the words of God the Father that he has chosen as the authority for faith and works.

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

 

The epistle to the Ephesians, written from Rome in 60 AD addresses two different segments of the Christian church. The very first verse in the epistle will give that breakdown. It says this.

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,

Segment #1 - to the saints which are at Ephesus,
Segment #2 - and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Segment #1 is a reference to the Jewish believers who are in that church and segment #2 are those who are called gentiles. One must understand and accept this truth if he will understand the "mystery of Christ," which is the theme of the epistle. These things have been hidden "in God," Paul says, until God chose him to make these things known in this age that he names "the dispensation of the grace of God." The mystery, for those who desire a nutshell verse to state this mystery, I direct you to chapter 3, verse 6.

It was not a mystery that God had promised his people, the Jews, that he would save them and give them his Holy Spirit to indwell them and give them life. What he had not mentioned until the door of faith was opened to the gentiles by Peter in Acts 10, is that he was forming a new thing in the earth, called the church, with both Jews and gentiles with equal status as "children of God though the new birth." This would also be his body and his bride and the pattern for this new relationship was prefigured in the creation of Eve, from the sleeping body of Adam and then presented to him as his bride and his wife. So, by the time this letter was written, there had been 20 years of church experience for Jews and gentiles and because of former relationships and covenants with the Jewish nation an explanation from God himself would be necessary for an understanding of what he was doing in this age. His integrity is also on the line if he does not fulfill all his covenant promises concerning a kingdom, a nation, the land, and a King to his covenant people, the Jews. This he will do when the church of Jesus Christ is complete.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

The cross of Jesus Christ was a major change for both Jews and gentiles and his death and resurrection made the way for God to forgive sins and remain a just God in doing it. The apostle in this epistle declared that the church of Jesus Christ IS the wisdom of God on display.

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

One can see in the whole of Eph 2 that these two groups of believers are noted and are present and that the first group, the Jews, are being saved on the basis of OT promises to them while the gentile believers are being saved on the principlal of grace, simply because God had made no promises to them that he was obligated to keep.
Thank God for his grace and mercy.

The church of Jesus Christ is a new creation in Christ Jesus and is different from Israel with different history and destination and relationship with God. The church of Jesus Christ is formed by believers from both groupsuntil 70 AD when the Jewish national identity was suspended and the scattered Jews were incorporated into gentile cultures and under their authorities and was thus considered by God as gentiles. It was at this time that the church took on a gentile character. One must understand though, that the church possesses the trinitarian signature in it's creation, Jew, gentile, and the Spirit of Christ.

 

Taisto, I did not direct my last comments to you because I am not arguing with you about how to read words and understand definitions. In Ephesians 2, the pronouns are very important when they are associated with time frames and previous relationships with these two groups. What you have posted here as Ephesians 2:1-10 is not even close to what it says and no one reading that garbled mess will ever be able to understand the mystery of Christ.

Here is the real words of Ephesians 2:1-10, that honors the division of the letter and maintains the pronouns that designates the groups.

Eph 2: And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The next verse identifies the "ye" of this letter.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Obviously Paul is speaking of two groups when he uses words like also, together, ye, our, both, and he makes a distiction that gentiles are saved by "grace" through faith. The principle during the apostolic age by which Jews were being saved was the principle of "promise." After they rejected Jesus Christ, they were saved by grace as well as the gentiles, they being rekoned by God as gentiles, the nation dispersed.

I may post some more on this thread but I am not going to argue with you about the English language and how to read and understand it.