Irrational theology.

[Silverhair]

I looked up the NLT and even it does not say "All humanity is killed". Here's the quote:

Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, shouting to the vultures flying high in the sky: “Come! Gather together for the great banquet God has prepared. 18 Come and eat the flesh of kings, generals, and strong warriors; of horses and their riders; and of all humanity, both free and slave, small and great.”

Even the NLT is saying it is the armies that are killed, and those armies ARE OF all humanity, which plainly means the soldiers, generals, captains, whatever, came from all nations on earth, which fits Scripture that essentially says all nations will be against Israel.

Zechariah 12:3
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Have you noticed that @taisto does not respond to my posts that point out the context. It is unfortunate that he will not see what the context says. He has a closed mind and you are just wasting your time dealing with him.

 

[taisto]

Have you noticed that @taisto does not respond to my posts that point out the context. It is unfortunate that he will not see what the context says. He has a closed mind and you are just wasting your time dealing with him.

I have responded to context everytime. I have shown you that in every English translation not only are the armies stated, but every human is stated. This is a universal judgment by Jesus. He comes and destroys all who have been in revolt against His Kingdom. All humanity is fed to the vultures. Earlier in Revelation we see that this is referred to as the winepress of God's wrath.

@Silverhair refuses to acknowledge the conundrum he has. He wants Jesus to return, not deal with sin, but rule the world for exactly 1000 years. Then Jesus is supposed to mysteriously leave the earth and in so doing an innumerable number of humans and nations rise up to destroy Jesus' Kingdom because, for some other unexplained reason, Satan is let out of a very real pit that has no bottom, where he is chained in metal chains. This uncountable number of people who were living in peace all rise up to create chaos after 1000 years of utopia. Then, Jesus has to return yet again to do what he could have done in Revelation 19 (and indeed did do in Rev 19) which is to destroy "all humanity" (slave and free, great and small) and set up His eternal kingdom.

I call Silverhair's narrative, irrational.

 

[Silverhair]

I have responded to context everytime. I have shown you that in every English translation not only are the armies stated, but every human is stated. This is a universal judgment by Jesus. He comes and destroys all who have been in revolt against His Kingdom. All humanity is fed to the vultures. Earlier in Revelation we see that this is referred to as the winepress of God's wrath.

@Silverhair refuses to acknowledge the conundrum he has. He wants Jesus to return, not deal with sin, but rule the world for exactly 1000 years. Then Jesus is supposed to mysteriously leave the earth and in so doing an innumerable number of humans and nations rise up to destroy Jesus' Kingdom because, for some other unexplained reason, Satan is let out of a very real pit that has no bottom, where he is chained in metal chains. This uncountable number of people who were living in peace all rise up to create chaos after 1000 years of utopia. Then, Jesus has to return yet again to do what he could have done in Revelation 19 (and indeed did do in Rev 19) which is to destroy "all humanity" (slave and free, great and small) and set up His eternal kingdom.

I call Silverhair's narrative, irrational.

Rev 19:18 In order that ye may eat ... flesh of kings, and ... flesh of captains, and ... flesh of mighty ..., and ... flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and ... flesh of all ..., both free and bond, both small and great. EW Bullinger Companion Bible

Rev 19:18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of everyone slave and free, small and great. Berean Study Bible

Rev 19:18 ἵνα That G2443 CONJ φάγητε Ye May Eat G5315 V-2AAS-2P σάρκας Flesh G4561 N-APF βασιλέων Of Kings, G935 N-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ σάρκας Flesh G4561 N-APF χιλιάρχων Of Chief Captains, G5506 N-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ σάρκας Flesh G4561 N-APF ἰσχυρῶν Of Strong Men, G2478 A-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ σάρκας Flesh G4561 N-APF ἵππων Of Horses G2462 N-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ τῶν Of Those Who G3588 T-GPM καθημένων Sit G2521 V-PNP-GPM ἐπ' On G1909 PREP αὐτῶν Them, G846 P-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ σάρκας Flesh G4561 N-APF πάντων Of All, G3956 A-GPM ἐλευθέρων Free G1658 A-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ δούλων Bond, G1401 N-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ μικρῶν Small G3398 A-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ μεγάλων Great. G3173 A-GPM Stephanus Textus Receptus

Rev 19:18 that you may eat flesh of kings, and flesh of chiefs of thousands, and flesh of strong men, and flesh of horses, and of those sitting on them, and the flesh of all -- freemen and servants -- both small and great.' Revised Young's Literal Translation of the NT

Rev 19:18 to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of the mighty, the flesh of horses and their riders-- flesh of all, both free and slave, both small and great." New Revised Standard Version

Rev 19:18 thatG2443 you should eatG2068 fleshG4561 of kings,G935 andG2532 fleshG4561 of commanders of thousands,G5506 andG2532 fleshG4561 of strong men,G2478 andG2532 fleshG4561 of horses,G2462 andG2532 of the onesG3588 sittingG2521 uponG1909 them,G1473 andG2532 fleshG4561 of all,G3956 both freeG1658 G5037 andG2532 bondmen,G1401 both smallG3397 G1473 andG2532 great.G3173 Apostolic Bible Polyglot

Rev 19:18 ἵναG2443 φάγητεG5315 σάρκαςG4561 βασιλέωνG935 καὶG2532 σάρκαςG4561 χιλιάρχωνG5506 καὶG2532 σάρκαςG4561 ἰσχυρῶνG2478 καὶG2532 σάρκαςG4561 ἵππωνG2462 καὶG2532 τῶνG3588 καθημένωνG2521 ἐπ᾽G1909 αὐτούς,G846 καὶG2532 σάρκαςG4561 πάντωνG3956 ἐλευθέρωνG1658 τεG5037 καὶG2532 δούλωνG1401 καὶG2532 μικρῶνG3398 καὶG2532 μεγάλων.G3173 Alford, Henry - The Greek Testament

So no all translations do not have what you need to find and if you will look at: Stephanus Textus Receptus, Apostolic Bible Polyglot, & Alford, Henry - The Greek Testament you will see that your required word "humanity" is not found in the Greek text.

But even your translation of choice the NLT does not support your insertion of "humanity", note who it says were killed and devoured:
Rev 19:21 Their entire army was killed by the sharp sword that came from the mouth of the One riding the white horse. And the vultures all gorged themselves on the dead bodies.

So you ignore the Greek text, you ignore the context and you also ignore your translation of choice the NLT.

 

[taisto]

Rev 19:18 In order that ye may eat ... flesh of kings, and ... flesh of captains, and ... flesh of mighty ..., and ... flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and ... flesh of all ..., both free and bond, both small and great. EW Bullinger Companion Bible

Rev 19:18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of everyone slave and free, small and great. Berean Study Bible

Rev 19:18 ἵνα That G2443 CONJ φάγητε Ye May Eat G5315 V-2AAS-2P σάρκας Flesh G4561 N-APF βασιλέων Of Kings, G935 N-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ σάρκας Flesh G4561 N-APF χιλιάρχων Of Chief Captains, G5506 N-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ σάρκας Flesh G4561 N-APF ἰσχυρῶν Of Strong Men, G2478 A-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ σάρκας Flesh G4561 N-APF ἵππων Of Horses G2462 N-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ τῶν Of Those Who G3588 T-GPM καθημένων Sit G2521 V-PNP-GPM ἐπ' On G1909 PREP αὐτῶν Them, G846 P-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ σάρκας Flesh G4561 N-APF πάντων Of All, G3956 A-GPM ἐλευθέρων Free G1658 A-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ δούλων Bond, G1401 N-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ μικρῶν Small G3398 A-GPM καὶ And G2532 CONJ μεγάλων Great. G3173 A-GPM Stephanus Textus Receptus

Rev 19:18 that you may eat flesh of kings, and flesh of chiefs of thousands, and flesh of strong men, and flesh of horses, and of those sitting on them, and the flesh of all -- freemen and servants -- both small and great.' Revised Young's Literal Translation of the NT

Rev 19:18 to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of the mighty, the flesh of horses and their riders-- flesh of all, both free and slave, both small and great." New Revised Standard Version

Rev 19:18 thatG2443 you should eatG2068 fleshG4561 of kings,G935 andG2532 fleshG4561 of commanders of thousands,G5506 andG2532 fleshG4561 of strong men,G2478 andG2532 fleshG4561 of horses,G2462 andG2532 of the onesG3588 sittingG2521 uponG1909 them,G1473 andG2532 fleshG4561 of all,G3956 both freeG1658 G5037 andG2532 bondmen,G1401 both smallG3397 G1473 andG2532 great.G3173 Apostolic Bible Polyglot

Rev 19:18 ἵναG2443 φάγητεG5315 σάρκαςG4561 βασιλέωνG935 καὶG2532 σάρκαςG4561 χιλιάρχωνG5506 καὶG2532 σάρκαςG4561 ἰσχυρῶνG2478 καὶG2532 σάρκαςG4561 ἵππωνG2462 καὶG2532 τῶνG3588 καθημένωνG2521 ἐπ᾽G1909 αὐτούς,G846 καὶG2532 σάρκαςG4561 πάντωνG3956 ἐλευθέρωνG1658 τεG5037 καὶG2532 δούλωνG1401 καὶG2532 μικρῶνG3398 καὶG2532 μεγάλων.G3173 Alford, Henry - The Greek Testament

So no all translations do not have what you need to find and if you will look at: Stephanus Textus Receptus, Apostolic Bible Polyglot, & Alford, Henry - The Greek Testament you will see that your required word "humanity" is not found in the Greek text.

But even your translation of choice the NLT does not support your insertion of "humanity", note who it says were killed and devoured:
Rev 19:21 Their entire army was killed by the sharp sword that came from the mouth of the One riding the white horse. And the vultures all gorged themselves on the dead bodies.

So you ignore the Greek text, you ignore the context and you also ignore your translation of choice the NLT.

It's funny how you are snipping here and snipping there in your attempt to hold on to your irrational view.
I have shown you how irrational the pre-mill view is regarding Revelation 20:1-6 and yet you persist.
Sometimes people hold to a view because it was burned into them as a child. Changing that paradigm is nearly impossible. Just ask our resident ex mormon.

 

[taisto]

I write more for the sake of others, lest any should mistakenly think he is even partly on track.

I truly wonder if he could be an atheist, here to ridicule us, because he totally ignores the context.

Christ isn’t returning to rule a world of cemeteries, having Himself killed every human. That has been clearly established. He will destroy the armies. The people of the earth will continue to bear children and them, grandchildren, for the entire thousand year. Some of them will follow Christ; some of them will follow the devil when he is released from his prison, which, by the way, no one has said has metallic bars. He just keeps making up outrageous statements in a vain attempt to make Christianity look foolish.

You really don't understand Revelation do you.
Revelation clearly shows us that upon Christ's return, the Bride of Christ (all believers) follow him to earth for the great wedding feast.
Those on earth are those who have the mark of the beast. They are all destroyed. They go with the whore of Babylon, the false prophet, the beast, and the dragon, into the Lake of Fire. They are no more.

It's actually quite telling that you would claim I am an atheist because I am not a pre-millennialist. That is sadly not an unusual tactic from futurists who dogmatically cling to an irrational view.

Just because you have your eschatology all messed up, I would never call you an atheist. You are disappointing.

 

[Silverhair]

It's funny how you are snipping here and snipping there in your attempt to hold on to your irrational view.
I have shown you how irrational the pre-mill view is regarding Revelation 20:1-6 and yet you persist.
Sometimes people hold to a view because it was burned into them as a child. Changing that paradigm is nearly impossible. Just ask our resident ex mormon.

@taisto you said and I quote "I have shown you that in every English translation not only are the armies stated, but every human is stated." I listed seven translations including one in Greek and one that is a literal translation of the Greek that shows your comment is false. You being closed minded point to something that is irrelevant and ignore everything else.

Actually I did not snip anything. When I posted from EW Bullinger's Companion Bible I just copied the text as it was.

I am curious as to why you will not just believe what the bible say in Rev 20:1-6. Do you possess a higher insight to the bible that us mere mortals do not have. Your allegorical approach to scripture allows you to read anything into the text that you need to find but it also means that it is not the text of scripture that you believe but yourself.

You claim that we are living in the 1000 yr reign of Christ on this earth but I have to ask if He is reigning and satan is bound then why do we see so much evil? What scripture do you base your view on? You must have really clear scripture to support your view.

 

[Silverhair]

You wonder if I could be an atheist because I hold to an amillennial understanding of Christ's return?

You clearly are being the judge. You are accusing me of having no belief in God.

You have broken the rules of the Baptist Board and I have reported you. We will see if the admins/moderators care about such a violation.

That is an interesting take on what is posted. Your the one that has made that leap to Amill = atheist.

I have gone through the scriptures, both Rev 19:18-21 and Rev 20:1-6 and your response has just been to disagree but not show why you disagree. I keep saying you need to trust the text of the bible and you say I should just trust what you say the bible means.

 

[taisto]

◄ Revelation 19:18 ►


New International Version
so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

New Living Translation
Come and eat the flesh of kings, generals, and strong warriors; of horses and their riders; and of all humanity, both free and slave, small and great.”

English Standard Version
to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.”

Berean Standard Bible
so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of everyone slave and free, small and great.”

Berean Literal Bible
so that you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of commanders, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of horses and of those sitting on them, and the flesh of all, both free and slaves, and small and great."

King James Bible
That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

New King James Version
that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

New American Standard Bible
so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, both free and slaves, and small and great.”

NASB 1995
so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”

NASB 1977
in order that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”

Legacy Standard Bible
so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of strong men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”

Amplified Bible
so that you may feast on the flesh of kings, the flesh of commanders, the flesh of powerful and mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all humanity, both free men and slaves, both small and great [in a complete conquest of evil].”

Christian Standard Bible
so that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of military commanders, the flesh of the mighty, the flesh of horses and of their riders, and the flesh of everyone, both free and slave, small and great.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
so that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of their riders, and the flesh of everyone, both free and slave, small and great.”

American Standard Version
that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses and of them that sit thereon, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, and small and great.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“To eat the flesh of Kings and the flesh of Captains of thousands and the flesh of Warriors and the flesh of horses and of those sitting upon them, and the flesh of Freemen and of Servants, and of small and of great.”

Contemporary English Version
You can eat the flesh of kings, rulers, leaders, horses, riders, free people, slaves, important people, and everyone else."

Douay-Rheims Bible
That you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of tribunes, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all freemen and bondmen, and of little and of great.

English Revised Version
that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses and of them that sit thereon, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, and small and great.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Eat the flesh of kings, generals, warriors, horses and their riders, and all free people and slaves, both important or insignificant people."

Good News Translation
Come and eat the flesh of kings, generals, and soldiers, the flesh of horses and their riders, the flesh of all people, slave and free, great and small!"

International Standard Version
Eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of commanders, the flesh of warriors, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, both free and slaves, both unimportant and important."

Literal Standard Version
that you may eat flesh of kings, and flesh of chiefs of thousands, and flesh of strong men, and flesh of horses, and of those sitting on them, and the flesh of all—freemen and servants—both small and great.”

Majority Standard Bible
so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of everyone slave and free, small and great.”

New American Bible
to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of military officers, and the flesh of warriors, the flesh of horses and of their riders, and the flesh of all, free and slave, small and great.”

NET Bible
to eat your fill of the flesh of kings, the flesh of generals, the flesh of powerful people, the flesh of horses and those who ride them, and the flesh of all people, both free and slave, and small and great!"

New Revised Standard Version
to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of the mighty, the flesh of horses and their riders—flesh of all, both free and slave, both small and great.”

New Heart English Bible
that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty people, and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, both free and slave, and small and great."

Webster's Bible Translation
That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Weymouth New Testament
that you may feast on the flesh of kings and the flesh of generals and the flesh of mighty men, on the flesh of horses and their riders, and on the flesh of all mankind, whether they are free men or slaves, great men or small."

World English Bible
that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, small and great.”

Young's Literal Translation
that ye may eat flesh of kings, and flesh of chiefs of thousands, and flesh of strong men, and flesh of horses, and of those sitting on them, and the flesh of all -- freemen and servants -- both small and great.

 

[Scarlett O.]

You have broken the rules of the Baptist Board and I have reported you. We will see if the admins/moderators care about such a violation.

Don't dish out that stuff, please. It's very, very unproductive and tires me.

I have said repeatedly that [1] the owners refuse to respond to requests for help, [2] all the admins are AWOL or cannot log in, and [3] we have only TWO active moderators.

I don't know how many more times I can say it.

Yes, Mr. W was wrong to "wonder" if you were an atheist because this topic divides you. I will erase his comment.

I get so sick of the Baptist Board being nothing but 4-year-old boys pretending to be men and fighting about the Bible.

The rest of the world is going to hell while you all do this.

Thread closed.