Irrational theology.

[37818]

I provided evidence your view was in error 3 of 4 times

1 Corinthians 15:22 refers to the fact everybody transferred into Christ will be then made alive spiritually.

1 Corinthians 15:36 refers to the "death" of being spiritually dead, thus to be made spiritually alive, causes our state of being spiritually dead to "die."

1 Peter 3:18 refers to sinners being made alive in the spirit (spiritually alive together with Christ).

​

One set in point.

1 Corinthians 15:22, ". . . For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. . . ."

Adam.

Romans 5:12, ". . . Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: . . ."

Christ.

John 5:28-29, ". . . Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. . . ."

 

[Van]

One set in point.

1 Corinthians 15:22, ". . . For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. . . ." SNIP
"

Some days, nothing seems to go right. Yes, as with Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 15:22 is also in the "future" tense, and refers to our future bodily redemption.

 

[timtofly]

One set in point.

1 Corinthians 15:22, ". . . For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. . . ."

Adam.

Romans 5:12, ". . . Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: . . ."

Christ.

John 5:28-29, ". . . Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. . . ."

Even all of creation was placed under death. So the Millennium is creation made alive. No death and decay again. It is not just about the spiritual man. It is all of physical creation made, as alive, as the spiritual part of creation is alive. We are just blind to, and not supposed to take part in the spiritual aspects of creation, in our sin. That is what the Holy Spirit is for; our connection with God. Adam was a spirit being, and died physically and lost any connection to his spirit, and the spirit side of creation enjoyed by that spirit.

It is not just the spiritual restoration, it is also the physical part. Both can be made alive together or in part.

Most want to disregard the necessity of physical life and talk about the spiritual, and they get both aspects wrong.

 

[Alan Gross]

Most want to disregard the necessity of physical life and talk about the spiritual, and they get both aspects wrong.

I borrowed this book from the library so many times before I could order it that I felt like I was leaning to them.

Now, here it is, available online, in PDF and other formats, free;​

The High King of Heaven (eBook) | Monergism

Very much worth pursuing through.

I've read it four times.

There is a recommended .mp3 series available on this page, too.

It won't hurt you. He's very kind in his treatment of other beliefs.

 

[MrW]

However Christ does it is fine by me.

Until it has happened and is past, I will continue to read and believe Scripture as written.

 

[MrW]

37818: What does SNIP mean?

This is what I found:

SNIP Meanings | What Does SNIP Stand For?

 

[37818]

37818: What does SNIP mean?

This is what I found:

SNIP Meanings | What Does SNIP Stand For?

Snip - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms

 

[MrW]

Snip - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms

You wrote this: 1 Corinthians 15:22, ". . . For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. . . ." SNIP

What is the meaning of SNIP at the end of that Scripture?

 

[37818]

You wrote this: 1 Corinthians 15:22, ". . . For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. . . ." SNIP

What is the meaning of SNIP at the end of that Scripture?

What post#?

The only way I use that word is in <> as <snip> only in lower case. And to cut someone's text short!

 

[MrW]

What post#?

The only way I use that word is in <> as <snip> only in lower case. And to cut someone's text short!

See post #142. It quotes you, and has SNIP at the end, and I don't understand that. Maybe someone edited it and added SNIP, but whether you did it or not, do you know what it means, used in that manner?

 

[37818]

See post #142. It quotes you, and has SNIP at the end, and I don't understand that. Maybe someone edited it and added SNIP, but whether you did it or not, do you know what it means, used in that manner?

Yeah. Post#142 @Van quoted me and clipped the rest of my post and added the "SNIP" where he cut off what I wrote.

One set in point.

1 Corinthians 15:22, ". . . For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. . . ."

Adam.

Romans 5:12, ". . . Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: . . ."

Christ.

John 5:28-29, ". . . Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. . . ."

@Van's style "SNIP" versus my style "<snip>."

 

[MrW]

So it indicates some of the quote was left off. Ok; thank you.

I was taught the ellipsis is for that purpose. In fact, the ellipsis is used on computers to show there is more, which is unseen until one clicks it.

Preceding means the start of the quote was left off, trailing means the last part was left off.

“… the start of the quote was left off…”

And it’s always three dots. Thus “snip” is redundant.

 

[timtofly]

So it indicates some of the quote was left off. Ok; thank you.

I was taught the ellipsis is for that purpose. In fact, the ellipsis is used on computers to show there is more, which is unseen until one clicks it.

Preceding means the start of the quote was left off, trailing means the last part was left off.

“… the start of the quote was left off…”

And it’s always three dots. Thus “snip” is redundant.

Most forums allow you to quote or reply to whatever text in a quote is highlighted. Acknowledging that other points of that post were left out is redundant.

Now if you reply to the entire post, and then delete or change text that is a different scenario. Some forums will ban or reprimand you for changing another poster's post and responding to that change. To keep it as safe as possible, I just highlight the part I want to respond to if a specific point is addressed.

Seems some posters make it an "art form" to chop up a post and respond with one line responses to each section. Seems a little tedious to me, unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Revmitchell]

The irrational theology is one that thinks Satan is fully unleashed and doing anything he wishes against the saints and the world.

No. Satan cannot do as he wills. He is presently bound and kept on a leash.

I am unaware of anyone who believes that. Just because Satan has to have God's permission doesn't prove Satan is bound up. Nor does it prove we are in an ideological millennium. You would have to prove the definition of bound up according to scripture.

(By the way the title of this thread is rude and unnecessary)

 

[37818]

By the way the title of this thread is rude and unnecessary)

The reason for it's title:
Irrational theology.

 

[taisto]

I am unaware of anyone who believes that. Just because Satan has to have God's permission doesn't prove Satan is bound up. Nor does it prove we are in an ideological millennium. You would have to prove the definition of bound up according to scripture.

(By the way the title of this thread is rude and unnecessary)

Is Satan fully unleashed? Yes?

 

[taisto]

I am unaware of anyone who believes that. Just because Satan has to have God's permission doesn't prove Satan is bound up. Nor does it prove we are in an ideological millennium. You would have to prove the definition of bound up according to scripture.

(By the way the title of this thread is rude and unnecessary)

This is no "ideological" millennium. This is the period where the church is growing and Satan has been restrained from bringing all the nations together in a full on attack on the church.

Somehow premillennialism creates a perfect utopia of 1000 years where Jesus reigns in earth from 6 verses that never express such an idea.

(Revelation 20:1-6)
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit and a heavy chain in his hand. He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Revmitchell]

Is Satan fully unleashed? Yes?

the question is irrelevant and based on your own personal standard. You glossed over the fact that you have to prove the biblical definition of bound. Your question is far from doing that.

 

[Revmitchell]

This is no "ideological" millennium. This is the period where the church is growing and Satan has been restrained from bringing all the nations together in a full on attack on the church.

That restraint does not prove Satan being bound in the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

Somehow premillennialism creates a perfect utopia of 1000 years where Jesus reigns in earth from 6 verses that never express such an idea.

See the problem is you only look to Revelation for confirmation of your symbolic ideology. I would give you more than that but you haven't given much other than deriding that which you disagree with, which is not a legitimate argument.

(Revelation 20:1-6)
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit and a heavy chain in his hand. He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.[/QUOTE]

 

[taisto]

That restraint does not prove Satan being bound in the bottomless pit for a thousand years.

Do you really think John is referring to a literal bottomless pit and literal chains? How do you propose a spirit being is chained with a metal chain?

What happens on day 364 of the 999th year? Do you really think, with all the symbolic language that John has been using throughout his letter, that 1000 years is literal? Such thinking is irrational.

See the problem is you only look to Revelation for confirmation of your symbolic ideology. I would give you more than that but you haven't given much other than deriding that which you disagree with, which is not a legitimate argument.

Not at all. I look to Revelation as the very reason to be filled with hope and to endure all things. John shows us how all of history is connected to Jesus purpose in the Garden of Eden when sin entered and God promised a Redeemer who would crush the serpent's head. John shows us how all the prophets pointed to Jesus. John shows us the battle in spiritual places that Paul alluded to in Ephesians 6. John shows us the great purpose of it all and thus gives us encouragement to endure to the end.

That's not ideology. That's revealed fact.

But, pre-millennialists are pining to be extracted and leave before all the saints are redeemed. It is such a cowardly interpretation. Christ could die on the cross for you, but when push comes to shove, you want an extraction. You want to flee.

(Revelation 20:1-6)
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit and a heavy chain in his hand. He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while. Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

Note that there is no pre-millennial rapture ever expressed in the book of Revelation. It is entirely forced upon the text.