Featured What does "The Limited Atonement" actually proclaim? What are the Scriptural Proofs?

So it is not the inspired Word of God you believe but rather what you want the Word of God to mean. So it is not the bible you believe but yourself.

 

But what is clear in the bible you deny.

 

I dont believe you believe it.

 

No thats you

 

strawman, invalid argument!

this is what the founder of Clavinism, John Calvin, says on John 3:16

“That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life” (emphasis mine)

Note what Calvin says here

"yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life”

ALL MEN WITHOUT EXCEPTION!

Could not be any clearer, that Jesus Christ, according to the founder of Calvinism, whose teachings were the basis of the Five Points of Calvinism, did NOT believe in any LIMIT on the Death of Jesus Christ!

Elsewhere Calvin also says:

John 1:29;

“Who taketh away the sin of the world. He uses the word sin in the singular number, for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said, that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone. But hence we infer that the whole world is involved in the same condemnation; and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they need to be reconciled to him. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking generally of the sin of the world, intended to impress upon us the conviction of our own misery, and to exhort us to seek the remedy. Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.”

Then we have Romans 5:18;

“He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him”

Here Calvin clearly says that Christ’s suffering for “the whole world” is “offered…to ALL”, but the “ALL” of the “human race” do not receive this gift from the Lord. Nothing could be plainer of the Universal Atonement as taught by Calvin.

Commenting on Mark 14:24, where Jesus says that His death is a “ransom for many”. Calvin says:

“Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race”

If, as the “Calvinists” teach, that they get their “limited atonement” from John Calvin, then they are clearly deluded! Here is a text that Jesus says that He died for “many”, and yet, you would have expected Calvin to have said, “only for a part”. But in fact, he says that it does not mean this, but Jesus’ words mean, “the whole human race”! I expect there are still those who will hold on to their lies about this doctrine and what Calvin actually taught. The context here includes Judas!

Glory to God for His Wonderful salvation for the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!

 

Limited atonement proclaims the salvific accomplishment of the Person and Work of Christ, it effects Salvation, even conversion back to God, 1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Peter writes by Christs stripes, meaning His suffering unto death, brought about healing. The word healed in the greek is iaomai:

1. to cure, heal
   
   
2. to make whole
   
   
   1. to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation
      

Notice it says to free from errors,

That is from

1. belief in something untrue; the holding of mistaken opinions.

See by nature we believe lies and need to be granted repentance to acknowledge and believe the Truth 2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Now if Christ died for us this repentance will be given.

 

No its not a strawman Its the Truth, lest you are a proponent of universalism or you deny the saving efficacy of Christs death. Both of those views are apostate.

 

BF you have failed to provide any clear scripture to support your view. The scripture that I have shown you allows for no wiggle room as to the meaning. What you have posted does not fit that requirement.

BF you do seem to have a problem understanding context don't you. No one was saved at the cross. Christ is our propitiation, He was the lamb of sacrifice that assuaged the wrath of God for all men.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

As Paul rightly said we must trust in the risen Christ for our salvation.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

1Pe 2.24 Peter speaking to fellow believers could rightly say that Christ bore their sins but you have to ignore the rest of the biblical text to conclude that this means only believers had their sins covered. Even from the 1Pe text we can see that they had trusted in the risen Christ, "that we, having died to sins". Did they die to sins when Christ was crucified or when they trusted the gospel message about the risen Christ?

1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Your use of 2Ti 2:25 is another example of your ignoring context in the attempt to support your theology.

2Ti 2:24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

The context shows that it is believers that have misunderstood a truth or been mislead by false teachers.Through patient, kind instruction they may be brought back to an understanding of the truth.

You have a habit of ignoring any text that does not fit your theology while at the same time using text as support that in actuality do not do so.

 

Christ's death is the propitiation for the sin of the whole world and thus made salvation possible for all but it is only through faith in the risen Christ that one is actually saved.

BF you made this comment "The Elect are legally saved/Justified before God solely by the Blood of Christ before they believe, then they are Spiritually saved by Spirit regeneration before they believe, then following regeneration they become consciously saved by Faith, they embrace and come into the Spiritual knowledge of their Salvation"

So by your own words you have people saved three times prior to faith in the risen Christ. So why did Christ have to die for sin? Why does anyone have to have faith as they are already saved. Remember Christ paid for all humanities sin at the cross. Also no one is elect unless they are in Christ, you are saying people are in Christ prior to faith.
You have made a mockery of the life, death and resurrection of Christ Jesus.

 

You have three alternatives regarding the Death of Christ,

#1 You believe[like me] its limited to the elect and effectually saved them, giving them Faith to believe or #2 That He died for all mankind but didnt effect Salvation but made it merely possible if men would accept it

or # 3 that He died for all mankind and so all mankind will be saved.

Which is it ?

 

I see you like Owen's trilemma. Owen's trilemma is written from his calvinist perspective so his argumentation in it is colored by that. But since I base my faith on scripture not what some man tells me scripture says, I do not give his trilemma much credit.

Well if we go by the bible it would have to be Christ is the propitiation for the whole world {1Jn 2:2} and those that believe in the risen Christ Jesus will be saved. {1Co 15:17} Just as God said Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith,.. We do not and can not save ourselves but God will save all that will trust in His risen Son. {Eph 1:13}

 

Actually it is biblical, you just do not want to accept that fact. If Christ had stayed in the grave, while all sins were covered and we were reconciled to God we could not be saved as we had not living savior to place our trust in.

I have to ask BF, were only your so called "elect" sinners or were all men sinners?
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

And whom did Christ die for?
Rom_6:10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

But we do not trust in a dead Christ but a living Christ.
1Co_15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

These verses show that it is through faith in the risen Christ that one is saved. Where are your verses that clearly show what you claim?

BF you make a number of claims but do not provide clear text to support them.

 

Which is it ? Are you scared to say ?

 

To say Christs death only made salvation possible, is the epitome of blasphemy. So tell me what made salvation certain a reality if Christ only made it possible.

 

Did you miss the part where I said I do not give Owen's comments much credit? I do not care what he wrote.
I told you what I believe and also what I do not.

Are you scared to accept what I said?

 

Faith

 

There are ZERO verses in the entire 66 Books of the Holy Bible that teach any limit in the extent of the Death of Jesus Christ.

There are some that have been wrested from their normal God intended meanings to be forced to support this totally unbiblical teaching

John 3.16 to 18 destroys this beyond any doubt to the Spirit led mind

 

SNIP

Actually you start of on the wrong foot so you are lost from the start.

Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

So while the whole world has their sins covered
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Which fits in nicely with the desire of God
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Notice He does not desire some men, as calvinists seem to think, but all men.

And thus all can be saved. It is only those that actually trust in the risen Christ that will be saved
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

So while salvation is possible for all it is only those that have a personal faith in the risen Christ that will be saved.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

So context, which seems to be something that you have overlooked, shows us that those that have freely trusted in Christ Jesus will, through Him, be saved from the wrath to come.

But if we were to go by your logic then since Christ is the propitiation for the whole world then the whole world must be saved so you are promoting universalism.