Featured Exodus 12:18

What year did the Hebrew Calendar change from observation?

In the late 3rd century AD with Hillel II. He is the father of the modern Hebrew Calender.

But after the Samaritan fires Rabbi Judah I began encouraging using astrology...but still no calculations. (the Samaritans set fires before the new year to obscure vision, which caused a few days delay in the month starting because no observation could be made of the moon). This would be around 190 AD.

We do know that Gamaliel II himself would go out and verify he could see the moon when messengers arrived stating it was visible (then they would meet and declare the new month). This was around 100 AD.



We do know that IF Jesus was crucified before the 3rd century AD then it is impossible to know the exact date. As far as I know, even centuries after the 3rd century we can't because while Hillel II did use mathametics it was not suitable to modern calculations.


Are you suggesting that the Crucifixion occurred AFTER the Jews changed to calculation rather than visual observation ?????

 

We can't reckon a date because a couple of days of obscured cloud coverage (even one day) would throw off where we would place Passover.


The best we can do is take the Sabbath and work backwards (Jesus was buried just before the Sabbath began). And that Sabbath was a "high Sabbath", so some holy day fell on that day.


The reason we have to work backwards is we know the Sabbath began at sundown on Friday evening but we cannot know any days working forward.

 

This is true in relation to the days of the Hebrew month.

The issue comes in when themonth started a day or two after the moon was a sliver (like with the Samaritan fires). There is also a year when Gamaliel II responded to two messengers who saw the moon, but he didn't see it. The month couldn't begin simply based on the report of the messengers (the Counsel had to agree).

But once the month was set the holy days did follow in order.


Another problem is in reporting. People report what they experienced. It was common outside of Jerusalem to have a couple of passover meals (one while traveling) in case the month is announced prior to the travelers arrival. If on the outskirts of Jerusalem late afternoon you could have a sacrifice being killed and meal observed prior to the actual Passover.

Strange, huh. Today we'd just have somebody call and tell us, or use a Passover app.

 

We may not believe the evidence in the same way.

I believe that the Jewish day begins at sundown (not sunset, but technically the end of sundown).

So, per my statement, I believe that the Jewish Sabbath begins at sundown prior to the Sabbath night.

I believe (I know you disagree, which is fine) that our days of the week (Julian Calendar) begin a moment after midnight (think "military time").

So I believe that Friday at the moment the sun has gone down begins the Jewish Sabbath.

I get you disagree but think about the reason the Jews start the day of the week at sundown:



The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. (Genesis 1:2-5)

What was one day? Night and Day. Dark and light. One day.

If you are beginning your dates at sunrise then they will always be off.



Regarding counting, this is also why a partial night-day counts as a day. Say it is Monday afternoon. From Monday afternoon to 11 pm Tuesday is 2 days (not by our counting, but by Jewish reckoning of days).

If a Jew were informed at twilight a loved one had died, for example, that partial day counts as the first full day of shiva.

We see this with Esther's fast as well (Esther 4).

Esther fasted for 3 days and 3 nights. But by our counting she fasted 1 full day, an evening and a morning.


My point is you cannot simply impose our days and reckoning onto the ancient Hebrews.

 

@37818 ,

It appears that there may be things you need to consider when working out your timeline. I think this will help:

1. The 1st century Hebrew Calendar utilized observation per God's instruction in Deuteronomy. So we cannot know exactly what date 1 Nisan began in the 1st century.

2. The Jewish day of the week began at sundown. You can't start in the morning. The Sabbath started at sundown prior to the morning of the Sabbath.

3. Partial days and partial nights were reckoned as a day and night. Think "night-day".

Esther fasted for 3 days and nights. But she started the fast on one day, fasted one day and night, and ended the fast the next morning.

Scripture states she fasted 3 days and nights and describes this as a day, a night and a day, and a night (we'd say "1 full day").

 

I don't see the difference.

You say we don't believe the same and insist you believe the Jewish day starts at sunset as opposed to me saying it starts at sundown.

What do you believe is the difference between sunset and sundown?


I think our disagreement is in which calendar to use.

I believe we should use the Biblical calendar (observation of the moon) where you believe we should use the post-Talmudic calendar (calculation of lunar cycles).

Obviously the post-Talmudic (calculation) is more accurate than the Biblical calendar (visual observation).

But we have to ask which one the 1st century Jews used. I believe they used the Biblical calendar because the Post-Talmudic calendar came about much later.

 

Then I have no idea about your objection that the Jewish Sabbath begins on our Friday at sundown.