What Identifies A Christian As A Baptist?

Then how do you apply the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Could that be the reason why Paul did not push water baptism but preach the gospel instead?

1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

I was referring to how you seem to define baptism as meaning only immersion and yet what some Baptists refer to Romans 6:3-4 for, they should consider that it will always applies to the baptism with the Holy Spirit, right?

Since water baptism is not required for salvation as those Gentiles did receive the promise of the Holy Ghost before water baptism in Acts 10:43-44, ( but they did get water baptized afterwards ) then why is it that some of the references used to define water baptism as meaning immersion only, is not ap[lied to the baptism with the Holy Ghost that all believers had received?

I know that some believers misapply Ephesians 5:18 as if exhorting believes to avoid getting drunk but instead seek a filling of the Holy Spirit but that is actually an apostate calling that ignores the warning in 2 Corinthians 11:2-4 when Ephesians 5:18 is just exhorting believers to say sober, as be filled with the Holy Ghost or remained filled with the Holy Spirit rather than getting drunk with wine.

Counterfeit Spirits Invading 'Churches': Kundalini vs the "Spirit of God" (youtube.com)

We are not a leaky vessel that needs a continual filling of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved. KJV

That is why after coming to & believing in Jesus Christ, no saved believer need to hunger nor thirst to be filled again.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

The only reason God permits those strong delusion to occur is because wayward believers believed the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirt again and by an outward sign too as feeling the spirit coming into them as the world does with spirits.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

We are complete in Christ after having received Jesus Christ and so being rooted in His words in trusting Him for all things including His enabling us to follow Him in thought, word, and deed, is how we grow in our relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ rather than follow after the appearance of evil for how the world receives spirits continuously by signs & wonders..

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

So how do you avoid factionalism in the Baptist churches when some insist water baptism has to be done by immersion only and that only an authorized Baptist church can give it? Doesn't that smack something the RCC has done to Catholics?

I do not know what you mean by nationals, let alone national leadership when each believer is to be submissive to the Head of the church, Whom that Head is Christ Jesus and therefore submissive to His words and not any contrary words of a denomination as if those extra words are needed outside the scriptures when scriptures would reprove it for how they are misapplying His words to mean in that denomination. Since we are doing that with the Catholic church, then it also has to apply to the Baptist church whenever one goes astray by going beyond what the scriptures says for emphasizing les we wind up creating factions among the Baptists churches and not just within that Baptist church.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

We are not called to be disciples of the Baptist church nor testify of that church to glorify that church but to testify of the Son to seek the glory of the Son in the same way we are not to testify of a movement of the "spirit" in seeking the glory of that movement of the 'spirit" but to testify of the Son to seek the glory of the Son and by Him, the glory of God the Father. By the grace of God and His help, that is being the disciple of Jesus Christ.

 

I am aware of the baptism with the Holy Ghost at our salvation moment, but my point to John of Japan is this emphasis on water baptism for that immersion as I believed was misapplied in Romans 6:3-4 to be about water baptism, Romans 6:3-4 can always be applied to the baptism with the Holy Ghost which every saved believer has received by faith in Jesus Christ.

 

Can you clarify your comment in relation to what I was commenting about? I am not following you.

 

Actually, you are the one insisting on your meaning that baptism is immersion for why my point about the baptism of the Holy Ghost does the same immersion to the believer without water baptism.

I was speaking on how the filling of the Holy Spirit can only be a one time event and that is when we are born again of the Spirit and to point out that which is an apostate calling as departing from the faith in Jesus Christ in seeking to receive the Holy Spirit by a sign and so if that shoe fits, you just applied His words to yourself.

I had hoped that you had grown since last we had exchanged but I see you are still clinging to that Pentecostal / Charismatic mindset whether you recognized it or not.

If you disagree, then how do you defer from identifying with the Pentecostals & Charismatics as being Baptist? What keeps the Pentecostals and Charismatics from bringing their practice into your Baptist church?

Hardly an objection but asking for your explanation of your use of the term nationals.

Well, I know some people think higher of themselves than they ought but using your knowledge to put down others is hardly worthy of the call of any missionary, but thanks for explaining your use of the term nationals.

Romans 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

At any rate, we are not like-minded in Christ because of the apostasy you admitted you are in, even though you are still my brother.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.

5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.

6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;....

.....14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

 

Thanks for confirming my point about the baptism of the Holy Spirit that can also be applied as the immersion of the believer without water baptism.

 

And what is required of you when making a judgment like that? By pointing out the error and reproving it by scriptures.

You did none of that and so you left me unreproved as I do not know what you are talking about that you have contentions with.

 

For the reason that water baptism is not required for salvation can be found here; 1 Corinthians 1:17-21

John 3:23. 'Now John was baptizing in Aenon, near Salim, because there was much water there.'

John preached a certain kind of water baptism which is for the remission of sins per Mark 1:4 & Luke 3:3 John the Baptist did prepare the way of the Lord for how believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins and the baptism of the Holy Ghost per Acts 10:43-44

As John the Baptist did signify how baptism will be different with Jesus, as He will do it with fire & the Holy Ghost, per Matthew 3:11 & Luke 3:16, it stands to reason why water baptism is taking a backseat when preaching the gospel.

Water baptism is an ordinance for new converts to follow but lacking water, anyone can start to follow Jesus in being His disciples without water baptism of any kind and so the emphasis on immersion is rather moot.

Acts of the Apostles 2:41. 'Then those who gladly received his word were baptized....'

Like I said, if water baptism was available to be had, and it was then, go for it, but a saved believer can be a disciple of Jesus Christ by following Him and His words with His help. having water baptism by immersion does not in any way mean they can never backslide nor does it mean they can never be engaged in works of iniquity that will get them denied by Him & thus left behind. Water baptism by immersion accomplishes nothing but serves as a public witness at the time of conversion.

Acts of the Apostles 8:12. But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women [no infants] were baptized.'

The irony of this reference cannot be overlooked because although they believed in the "things" Philip preached about and got water baptized in Jesus's name, BUT something was amiss as they were not saved yet because they had not received the Holy Ghost yet for why Peter & John were sent down to lay hands on them to receive the Holy Ghost.

Wisdom & discernment from the Lord is needed here as "famous" Philip was replacing the "infamous" Simon the sorcerer in the region as Simon was responsible for the many that were afflicted by unclean spirits and so the Samaritans were coming to & following Philip more out f fanfare rather than coming to & believing in Jesus Christ. So not only the Samaritans were in need to lift their sights higher as it was not Philip casting out unclean spirits but the Lord Jesus Christ, so was Simon the sorcerer as he even erred in seeing Peter & john laying on of hands in giving the Holy Ghost as something they were doing that Simon could purchase with money to do the same and so Peter & john had rebuked him in lifting his sight higher to God.

Some Christians that try to promote another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, will contend that they were saved before Peter & John had come down to lay hands on them but Romans 8:9 reproves such notion.

And so this add credence that water baptism by immersion did not profit those following Philip out of fandom.

I agree that infant baptism is not Biblical but that same reference can be used for why babes can come to Jesus by the Father revealing His Son to them, thus enabling them to believe in Him for salvation without water baptism of any kind, including immersion. Matthew 11:25-27 That was why He said let them freely come to Him.

to be continued

 

Continued from last post

Leaving it out of the quote....

Baptism is an ordinance of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, to be to the person who is baptized - a sign of his fellowship with Christ in His death and resurrection, of his being engrafted into Christ (1); of remission of sins (2); and of that person's giving up of himself to God through Jesus Christ, to live and walk in newness of life (3).

**** Yet if that was actually true as applying to water baptism, then why were those Samaritans not saved as water baptized by immersion as provided from Philip?

(1) Romans 6:3-5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27.
(2) Mark 1:4*****; Acts of the Apostles 22:16.
(3) Romans 6:4.

Except for Mark 1:4 which is about John the Baptist's water baptism of repentance for the remission of sin, all those other references can easily be applied to the baptism with the Holy Ghost and therefore I believe that is actual baptism that is referred to here. Example can be found for that Galatians 3:27 reference by taking it in context.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith....... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Yet we had those water baptized by immersion in Jesus's name in Acts 8th chapter but they were not saved and the N.T. knows something about believers not all water baptized from how Paul deferred from water baptism in respect to the preaching of the cross as he just declared it was not his habit to water baptized but to preach the gospel.

1 Corinthians 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.......21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

You can see Paul excluding water baptism entirely in his presentation of the gospel to the Romans.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hopefully you can see why I have Biblical grounds to disagree with you as I believe you are misapplying some of those scriptural references to mean water baptism when I can easily see those references in regards to the baptism with the Holy Spirit that Jesus gives for all who come to & believe in Him to be saved.

As there are different false teachings circling among the "Baptist" member in this forum, and John of Japan is astray in at least one, I would not use him as a litmus test for all things Baptist. It is obvious that not all Baptists are saying the same thing no holding to the same judgment and so John of Japan nor you can say what really makes a Christian a specified Baptist.

But like Paul, we are not to be identified as a Baptist, or of Paul, or of John Calvin or of anyone other than Jesus Christ. We are not to seek the glory of the Baptist church as if they can do no wrong when we are to be followers of Jesus Christ in testifying of Him in seeing His glory.

It is too bad that this forum separates the Baptist from other Christians and as much as I would like to identify with the supposed Baptist branch that did not come out of the Catholic Church, some members identify with a creed in applying the worship of God as the Trinity which is not found in scriptures for us to do, but to honor only the Son if we wish to honor the Father as that is the standard of judgment raised on ever believer in John 5:22-23 as Jesus emphasized in coming to Him if we wish to come to God the Father for anything in prayer, fellowship, and worship. And so even if this forum consist of some Baptists that did not come out of the Catholic Church, some of the Catholic Church by way of creeds has crept in to broaden the way in how God the Father wants us to come to Him by Matthew 7:13-14 & John 10:1 & if we wish to avoid that work of iniquity, we should narrow the way back to the straight gate or risk being left behind per Luke 13:24-30.

This is going to sound like woke, but what is a Baptist?

Since not all Baptists are saying the same thing nor holding to the same judgment, then we should seek His help to identify as being a disciple of Jesus Christ in following Him rather than following a confession or a creed or a church's catechism.

What say you?