KenH
Well-Known Member
The Bible is NOT "all over the place" on anything.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
When Did God Choose His People?
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
The Bible is NOT "all over the place" on anything.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Calvinists are not monolithic in how they view this. Calvin was strong on predestination of all events as a general philosophy but if you look at his commentary he believed John 3:16 the word "world" referred to all and everyone, not just the elect. There is much debate about what he believed on limited atonement with most believing he believed Christ died for everyone. In addition, in his commentary on Ephesians 2:8-9 it is not clear what he believed as far as faith being a "gift".
There is good evidence that modern Calvinism as explained by James White and the internet guys is way more deterministic than the Reformers taught it as far as salvation. Further back, as a general philosophy, Calvin and the early reformed theologians were very deterministic and they are arguing nowadays about where this came from. My post #9 above is not a joke. I can give you the reference if you want to buy the book and have an extra 40 bucks lying around.
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Of course it is. That's why men try to develop "systematic theologies" to organize it. The fact that some of you guys try to bend everything to match your own presupposition and then declare everything all set is your problem. I have to go for now but will be back later. Look. You, as a hyper-Calvinist are consistent. But you ignore other passages. Thus you guys don't like Owen, Edwards, and other Calvinists because they tried to achieve some balance in these doctrines.
KenH
Well-Known Member
KenH
Well-Known Member
I ignore no passages.
KenH
Well-Known Member
No, it is not.
1 Corinthians 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
I've studied Calvinism for a long time now, I've never been able to get past the "T."
It's in direct opposition to what I've found in the Scripture.
No need for me pound it in the ground, they are justified by faith just as I am.
But I'll have to say, I sure wouldn't want to face God with double predestination hanging around my neck.
That's not going to go over very well I'm afraid.
KenH
Well-Known Member
You don't know whom I like or don't like. I have not published a list. Do I have a disagreement with infralapsarianism? Yes, as I think that the infralapsarians pull their punches, so to speak. But I like John Owen quite a bit. I have not read if he ever even involved himself in a conversation in print over the infralapsarianism/supralapsarian issue.
I was an infralapsarian myself for around a year after the Holy Spirit regenerated me(not that I had ever really looked at the issue in any kind of detail), until my eyes were opened to the Biblical truth of supralapsarianism.
KenH
Well-Known Member
I am not afraid. 2 Timothy 1:12 For I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
Amen, Brother, I admire your confidence in the Lord! I think maybe you've thrown a little of it my way.
We believers will stand before Christ in judgment, not for sin, for in God's eyes we have none by faith in Christ.
But we will answer for we have done, whether it be good or bad, according to Paul.
I hope we both leave that Judgment Seat having left a pile of crowns at the feet of Christ.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Nope. The elect's sins have all been judged in Christ. The elect's reward is Christ.
This teaching of mercenary actions for "greater rewards" is a false teaching. What would anyone possibly want more than to have Christ as one's reward? What are you after? A bigger mansion? A place closer to the throne of God?
This whole mercenary teaching sounds like economic capitalism run amuck.
Alright, any crowns I receive as far as I know are left at the feet of Christ, so just being with Christ for eternity is all I want or need.
Whatever else is in store for me is a bonus but Christ is all I want.
You sound like one of those fundamentalist's putting me through the interrogation
LOL, I'm the fundamentalist here, that's what I'm supposed to be doing. .
Amen! Maybe someday @Charlie24 will have that sort of faith and accept the truth of eternal security of God's children. It seems this is a major gripe of his with 'Calvinism'. He doesn't like it for some reason.
Oh, I'm all about eternal security, John assured us to have that security when he said, These things have I written that you may know you have eternal life."
But just as John believed, there must be faith in Christ to have that security.
God doesn't just pick this one and that one, and say you have faith, exonerating them from all responsibility of security.
That's rather foolish, don't you think?
KenH
Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 1:25 The foolishness of God is wiser than men.
1 Corinthians 1:27-31 God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; and base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: that no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Ken, what is this supposed to mean? Are you not able to speak for yourself?
KenH
Well-Known Member
So you want me to speak, instead of God's Word? Seems like a strange question on this type of message board.
Well you can explain what you mean by that Scripture, that is the customary thing to do on the boards.
I can post to your Scripture all day, but if I don't make my points from it, there's no communication taking place.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, and giveth seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isa 55
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Ken. Didn't mean any offense. In past posts I thought you had been among those who complained when I put up writings from Owen and Edwards freely offering the gospel to people on the condition they believe. But maybe I was thinking of someone else. Also, because I like those guys, and other Puritans - they always put a high importance on living the Christian life and had zero comfort to offer to someone who didn't, regardless of their feelings on predestination and election. They had a strong emphasis on examining yourself - with the obvious idea that you could do so, and therefore you could make a difference by what you discovered and did.