Which Mystery Would You Pick?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not all who believe the 5 Points believe in infant baptism; there are baptists who believe the 5 points. Indeed, the historic Baptist confessions of faith, such as the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, are certainly Calvinistic.

We have absolutely no Confession of Faith, we don’t teach Calvin, but we do see the 5points imbedded in the scriptures. Didn’t this Baptist COF come right after the Presbyterian Confessions? I studied both and it’s almost a copy of the Presbyterian Thing. Really need a document like that to tell you how to interpret the Bible? Or do the Roman Catholics have a point….protastantsare all over the boards when it comes to interpretation of scriptures

 

[David Lamb]

We have absolutely no Confession of Faith, we don’t teach Calvin, but we do see the 5points imbedded in the scriptures. Didn’t this Baptist COF come right after the Presbyterian Confessions? I studied both and it’s almost a copy of the Presbyterian Thing. Really need a document like that to tell you how to interpret the Bible? Or do the Roman Catholics have a point….protastantsare all over the boards when it comes to interpretation of scriptures

Sorry, you seem to have read much more into my post than I intended to be there. I did not say anything about needing a "document like that to tell me how to interpret the Bible." I was just answering what you wrote: " I don’t claim to be a Calvinist…they believe in infant baptism, I don’t." I only mentioned the London Baptist Confession of Faith to show that not all who believe the 5 Points practice infant baptism. I apologise that I was not clear enough.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Sorry, do you really mean that you don't care that we read in the New Testament that Christians spread the gospel?

Regarding what you say about living by convictions, that should be true of Christians. That is what Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus:

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:8-10 NKJV)

We do our Lord and Saviour a grave disservice when our lives don't bear any relationship to the gospel we stand for.

I wouldn’t say it if I didn’t believe it….the gospel I believe in differs greatly from the gospel you believe in. Try studying the Talmud and the ways of the Jews…But you won’t do that will you. You won’t study the gospel that Jesus was trained up in so you ignore it. See I’m a Radical Christian who believes that the ways of god go far deeper than any silly Confessions of Faith document you testify to….my god, it was origionally authored by Presbyterians for goodness sake. Let me challenge you to go to the root cause of things. Maybe try a Primitive Baptist church. But don’t sit on your arse, completely ignorant of the origional teachings …that’s not even a commitment to truth.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Sorry, you seem to have read much more into my post than I intended to be there. I did not say anything about needing a "document like that to tell me how to interpret the Bible." I was just answering what you wrote: " I don’t claim to be a Calvinist…they believe in infant baptism, I don’t." I only mentioned the London Baptist Confession of Faith to show that not all who believe the 5 Points practice infant baptism. I apologise that I was not clear enough.

You will have to define what a Calvinist actually is…some will claim that it’s pure Presbyterian theology (that infant baptists), Reformed which are more Baptists oriented, whatever. Primitive Baptists never drowned, burned or shot anyone so i disavow any Calvinistic activity that killing those disagreeing with them.

 

[David Lamb]

I wouldn’t say it if I didn’t believe it….the gospel I believe in differs greatly from the gospel you believe in. Try studying the Talmud and the ways of the Jews…But you won’t do that will you. You won’t study the gospel that Jesus was trained up in so you ignore it. See I’m a Radical Christian who believes that the ways of god go far deeper than any silly Confessions of Faith document you testify to….my god, it was origionally authored by Presbyterians for goodness sake. Let me challenge you to go to the root cause of things. Maybe try a Primitive Baptist church. But don’t sit on your arse, completely ignorant of the origional teachings …that’s not even a commitment to truth.

No need to be rude. I am not "completely ignorant of the original teachings." Just because I used a confession of faith to show that you are mistaken in your assumption that all who believe the 5 points are also paedobaptists. Incidentally, the Confession of Faith I mentioned is firmly bible based. Every one of its statements has scripture references. It is certainly not a "silly confession of faith".

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

David, moving forward, I do not see Christianity as a stagnant understanding of God, incapable of evolving….rather it’s constantly evolving because of scrutiny of the gospels and the interpretations there of. Of course I include my own understanding, right or wrong,I will stand by my understanding until prove wrong and that involves a ton of discussion, contemplation and prayer…I even include dreams where God instructs me. As far as proselytizing to a target audience, well I flat out disapprove of it unless commanded of me by the Holy Spirit. For example, it has been put in my head to assemble believers in my community, whether churched or unchurched is unimportant, and calling them to assembly using Primitive Baptist principles of unity and gospel. Note that if the old principles of Christianity worked in the past we would be awash in massive people testifying to being Children of God..well we do not have that and it’s evident if you survey the area. This is the planting of seeds approach to committing to God. And if God is truly with us, who is going to be against us?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No need to be rude. I am not "completely ignorant of the original teachings." Just because I used a confession of faith to show that you are mistaken in your assumption that all who believe the 5 points are also paedobaptists. Incidentally, the Confession of Faith I mentioned is firmly bible based. Every one of its statements has scripture references. It is certainly not a "silly confession of faith".

To me it is, it should not substitute the Bible.

 

[David Lamb]

David, moving forward, I do not see Christianity as a stagnant understanding of God, incapable of evolving….rather it’s constantly evolving because of scrutiny of the gospels and the interpretations there of. Of course I include my own understanding, right or wrong,I will stand by my understanding until prove wrong and that involves a ton of discussion, contemplation and prayer…I even include dreams where God instructs me. As far as proselytizing to a target audience, well I flat out disapprove of it unless commanded of me by the Holy Spirit. For example, it has been put in my head to assemble believers in my community, whether churched or unchurched is unimportant, and calling them to assembly using Primitive Baptist principles of unity and gospel. Note that if the old principles of Christianity worked in the past we would be awash in massive people testifying to being Children of God..well we do not have that and it’s evident if you survey the area. This is the planting of seeds approach to committing to God. And if God is truly with us, who is going to be against us?

I agree that Christianity is not stagnant. There are always fresh things to learn from the bible. As far as proselytizing is concerned, the earliest Christians preached to fellow Jews, and Paul preached to people in Ephesus who were worshippers of the goddess Diana. I do fully agree that if God is for us, who can be against us?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

BTW, Christ did not leave out the Jews…they were there in all His Sermons. And of course there is disagreement and argumentations…but that then serves to clarify a stance taken…I can’t ignore it if I want to drill down to the truth…so they must be given a voice in religious discussion’s. Then do we exclude anyone? How about the Muslims, where do they fit in or don’t they?

 

[Blank]

You should never guess….“ I haven’t seen any movement, guess he is gone” so I’d say guess so you move out first, now would you go?

I guess not.

 

[Christforums]

First question, who is Satan anyway? Rabbi Manis Friedman views Satan not as a malevolent entity but as an angel tasked by God to test and challenge individuals, ultimately serving a positive purpose in helping people grow stronger and overcome challenges

Satan has many names and I believe from my studies each name like G-d describes each of his attributes. For example, Lucifer, or the morning star, he can appear as an angel of light. He's the serpent of old, the adversary, the great counterfeiter etc etc. Satan appears to have gone through a transformation throughout historical timeline of Scripture. Translations sometimes described Satan as an angel other times a once heavenly creature cherub or even a seraph from the highest order.

Undoubtedly Satan has a purpose and plays a key role in the eschatology at the epicenter or final theatrical climax. Was a rather neat study but dark one to say the least years ago while outlining the tactics and tactical targets of Satan. Some give Satan too much credit and blame the devil rather than placing accountability and responsibility on the shoulders of man and other times not giving him enough credit. Why would Satan for example when struggling with theological fatalism bother with the reprobate? Perhaps to keep them from coming to Christ, and towards the elect to cause theological fatalism which is a paralysis to delay them in their mission like an angel the devil delayed. Obviously, Satan also targets leaders such as kings which largely influence mankind like political leaders as well areas which are central and influential like the church of Acts (magicians and sorcerers which counterfeit) central hubs where people are traveling through and then dispersing to broader areas.

And I agree w/ Friedman, Satan had tested and challenged individuals including the temptations of Jesus. Question is would Satan instrumentally contribute to the elect's salvation if he had known? And, despite Martin Luther's recommendations to mock or jeer the devil because he cannot endure scorn for he is much too proud, angels rebuked Satan carefully in the name of the L-rd.

Satan can be considered another mystery. A mystery could be defined as what is known only to G-d unless revealed by G-d. Satan could be considered like another mystery, the existence of evil, and in line with Friedman suggested Satan is the personification of evil.

 

[Christforums]

How about the Muslims, where do they fit in or don’t they?

Wasn't until around the 7th century.

 

[Blank]

BTW, Christ did not leave out the Jews…they were there in all His Sermons. And of course there is disagreement and argumentations…but that then serves to clarify a stance taken…I can’t ignore it if I want to drill down to the truth…so they must be given a voice in religious discussion’s. Then do we exclude anyone? How about the Muslims, where do they fit in or don’t they?

It's just too bad the Jews left out Christ, despite the fact their own Scriptures spoke of Him.

 

[Christforums]

I don’t care…in fact I’m believing to warm up to the ways of the Jews and their study of the Talmud …your New Testament. They do live by their convictions.

Reminds me of Samuel, particularly Ramah when the men of Saul went to apprehend David and came back empty handed because they were caught up in the Spirit of the L-rd. Undoubtedly, there are noble devout Jews. Salvation was for the Jews first and then the Gentiles. Sometimes Gentiles want to conform Jews to their ways of worship, but that's consistent w/ our religious and church history. Reformed Jews began a sect of Judaism, and that liberal sect is known as Christianity today. Christianity is closer to the pharisaical school of Hillel rather than to the strict orthodox school of Shammai.

 

[Christforums]

It's just too bad the Jews left out Christ, despite the fact their own Scriptures spoke of Him.

I believe he is pointing out that Jew is a general term. Jews followed Jesus, were his disciples, his apostles, began and filled the first churches, and today some do not give up their Jewish lineage and believe Jesus was the Messiah, they are Messianic Jews.

Unfortunately, the older brother (Jew) demonstrated jealousy towards the younger brother the prodigal son (Gentile). Rather than rejoice together in the Father there's religious opposition. Oftentimes Christians believe Missionary work entails converting the Jews rather than Reform.

If a Jew after stating, Deuteronomy 6:4, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one" and then asked, do you agree? Could you agree and leave it? Most Trinitarians won't leave it. And attempt to convey nobody before the coming of the Messiah was saved as if soteriology differed between the Old and New Testaments. There has always been a faithful remnant of Israel, our translations term them saints in the OT. Hebrews 11 the hall of faith lists the many faithful persons throughout the OT. Sometimes we forget, the OT authors were too Jews before the birth of Jesus and were among the faithful remnant of Israel.

 

[JesusFan]

There is no direct access to God, our access to God comes through Jesus Christ and our knowledge of Him comes through His word, specifically the Gospel.

No teaching preaching hearing of the scriptures', no salvation, as the Holy Spirit uses the scriptures to accomplish His task to save lost sinners thru them

 

[JesusFan]

Wrong ….the Holy Spirit regenerates…..he doesn’t need mankind to do his job. so if you want to be there after the regeneration to answer questions then do that, but to come to people and start with me with


questions like, do you believe? That’s just annoying and accomplishes nothing. Now if it was the Holy Spirit directly approaching me, convincing me, changing my heart entirely, developing in me a consciousness, then He (God) has my full attention…but not any man…like who are you?

he accomplished that by the washing and renewing by the Holy Scriptures

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It's just too bad the Jews left out Christ, despite the fact their own Scriptures spoke of Him.

In Jewish society, there is a great emphasis placed upon being a Mensch,a good person whose existence is to good things for humanity. If everyone becomes a Mensch then Messiah will come. They would probably reject Christ as they felt the world was still far from being a place that the Mensch dominated. Remember they were the people who first came up with this…given that, they would have never accepted Christ.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

he accomplished that by the washing and renewing by the Holy Scriptures

I am not following.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No teaching preaching hearing of the scriptures', no salvation, as the Holy Spirit uses the scriptures to accomplish His task to save lost sinners thru them

The entire Trinity is The Word. Remember the creation of man involved Gods breathing on molded clay to bring about humankind…and it was good. So God breathed us into life. In each instance it is the very inculcation of the Holy Ghost who changes the heart, mind, nature of mankind. We are spiritually changed so we can inherit our place in his kingdom. Angels do not get that gift ….only Mankind. We must be very special beings to God then….we are his children He imagined into existence since before the world began. And He keeps faith with us through the born again (regenerate & conversion process).