New Covenant is far superior to the old one
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Eternal Security
- Thread starter Ben1445
- Start date
This is still judgment under the law.
We are not under the law.
If you don't understand that the OT saints were saved the same as us, then this conversation can't take place.
The OT saints were to see that they couldn't keep the Law of God (the 10 Commandments) that's why the sacrificial system was placed in the Law.
They then seen that through the blood of an innocent animal, tht represented Christ, by faith, their sins were forgiven.
The same thing, but if we can't agree on this, then round and round we go!
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
They were under the law. We are not.
Yes we are all saved by faith put in God’s plan for our salvation.
But you can’t crawl back under the law and make salvation of no effect.
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
God saved me, God Keeps me, and God will raise me up on resurrection Day
I have to preface this a little. While trying to keep the thread on topic, I have no argument with that statement as long as it is understood that the new covenant is the one referred to in Scripture. That comes from God and is not of any man’s invention or interpretation.
Strictly speaking, as it is stated in Jeremiah 31 and referenced in Hebrews.
As long as we keep focused and fixed upon Yeshua, trusting in Him alone to save us and keep us saved, we shall not turn away and fall away seems to be how some see this issue, but the truth is its God who saved us, will keep us, and the sealing by the Holy Spirit makes this already a "done deal"
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
The Law could save no one because no one could keep the Law, Christ did keep the law for us, the only human being in history who did!
Whether you realize it or not, the OT saints were saved by grace through faith before Paul said it, before it was revealed.
Justification by faith was introduced in Genesis, when "Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness."
This conversation can't continue, we are not on equal understanding to discuss this!
My point was that many who see that we can actually lose our eternal life in Christ want to appeal to OT passages many times, but that would be referencing a far inferior Covenant
And Paul never added anywhere to watch out and can lose salvation
Not hated, but trying to see why you want to go under the yoke of trying to keeping yourself saved based upon your performance, and not under what Jesus already did when he paid it in full and said "it is accomplished"
Where pray tell, am I "trying to keep myself saved based on my performance."
You can't point to that in anything I've said!
You have no ideas what you're talking about on this subject so you resort to trash such as this!
IF we can actually lose our salvation, no longer having eternal life in Christ, that would be due to something we did or failed to do, our own efforts and works
Yes and No!
Yes, you no longer have eternal life if you no longer believe.
And NO, it's not a work you did by no longer believing, that decision took place in the heart.
Paul plainly told "it is with the heart that man believes unto righteousness.
Not anymore than you are denying this who believe have everlasting life.
I read the passage to be in the context of the Mosaic Law. Under the Law there is a blessing and there is a curse. The blessing is based on righteousness while the curse is based on unrighteousness.
Can a righteous man trun from righteousness? Yes. David did. Peter did. And they turned back to God.
IF this is now your argument and turning from righteousness is the same as "falling away", which you said means one cannot be saved, then you have to concede that Peter and David are condemned.
Likewise, if you committed an unrighteousness act (a sin) after being saved then perhaps our previous conversation - IF this act is "falling away" - then you can't be saved. All of us would be condemned.
But this is not the question I have been addressing (you are transferring my comment regarding being made a new creation to righteousness under the Law).
I was talking about the righteousness of God manifested apart from the Law - our salvation in Christ, our being made a new creation, born of the Spirit.
Are you straight up denying that now apart from the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe?
If you are denying this then our conversation is over.
LOL, Jon I know what you're doing! That scholar mind is at work trying to turn the tables.
Let me ask you this Jon. Is the turning from righteousness in Ezekiel 18 the same as David and Peter turning from righteousness in that Ezekiel said they died in their sins?
No sir, it's a completely different turning, but you know that, Jon, it's that scholar mind at work that works against you!
I agree. And if you go down that path by pointing to Scripture some will hate you. The silver lining is we can start a club.
Did you understand why your application of Ezeliel is problematic?
Ezekiel was speaking of righteousness and unrighteousness, NOT being born of the Spirit and not being born of the Spirit.
If I was saved and afterwards lied, I committed a sin. Per your discussion here I "fell away" and can no longer be saved.
The larger issue, however, is the context of that passage. Those words were written supporting Ezekiel's claim that sins and righteousness cannot be transferred from a person.
Don't hate me, but so far as hard truths go, you spent a great deal of time on another thread explaining how sins really can be transferred from the sinner.
As much as I disagree with you, Jon, I could never hate you!
I enjoy your character too much for that!