The Definition Of “Foreknowledge”

[Aaron]

God the Father knew you and chose you long ago...

He knew you, because He created you.

YOU.

Let's look at this outside of election.

He determined that YOU would come through only one of billions of the descendants of Adam, that is Noah...and everyone else was cut off by the Flood.

And then through all the wars and famines and pestilences and oppressions and injustices throughout the millennia, determined YOU would come into the world.

Either, that, or you are just one lucky guy.

Angel: Another soul just entered the world.

God: Oh, boy. What does the supply of individual plans and purposes look like?

Angel: We're good.

God: Whew! Thank God...er, uh, I mean..Thank ME! LOL. Well, he's one lucky guy.

Ridiculous, of course.

Now add God's purposes according to election...

He knew you would be in the world, because He determined that you would be...and then chose you. Sent you a preacher. Sent you the Spirit. And then gave YOU the power to mess that all up?

 

[Silverhair]

Jesus was delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God the Father.

Active.

Who, through the purpose of God, have been made holy by the Spirit, disciples of Jesus, made clean by his blood: May you have grace and peace in full measure. - 1 Peter 1:2 BBE

God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ. May God give you more and more grace and peace. - 1 Peter 1:2 NLT

chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. - 1 Peter 1:2 RSV

Foreknowledge is not causative.
Greek expression: prognosis
Pronunciation: PRAW gnoh seess
Strong’s Number: <G4268>
The Greek term prognosis, which means “foreknowledge,” indicates “knowledge beforehand.” The English term “prognosis” is derived from this Greek word. In the New Testament, prognosis and its verbal form indicate “advanced knowledge” (Rom_11:2; 1Pe_1:2; 1Pe_2:23).
Scripture teaches that God is aware of events before they happen.

It is God’s “foreknowledge” that provides the basis for the predictions of the prophets. Peter also tells that God had foreknowledge of His Son’s death on the cross long before the event occurred (1Pe_1:20). HKWG

Calvin insisted that God knows all events precisely because He sovereignly determines what is to happen in human history right down to the tiniest detail.
Now if you insist that foreknowledge equals cause then you have just made God the author of sin and evil as He knows all the sin and evil that will occur.

God knowing what will happen does not cause it to happen. God knows all those that will freely come to trust in Him for their salvation. Jesus’ death for our redemption was not an afterthought; it was part of God’s eternal plan. Act 2:23 "He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge,..." tells us. BSB

And again we see this in 1Pe 1:2 "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ..." BSB
His plan being worked out.

 

[atpollard]

So my question is why do you not believe what Jesus said? You seem to go to great lengths to deny the word of God, why is that?

I ask the same of you. Let scripture explain scripture. Jesus said he would draw all men (John 12:32) and John saw who was drawn (Rev 5:9), so why do you not believe that Jesus DID what he said he would do? Jesus drew all men without distinction, but not all men without exception … because EVERYONE that is drawn will be raised (John 6:44) and ”everyone without exception” clearly did not come to Jesus starting in the First Century AD.

 

[atpollard]

What you fail to realize that although Christ will draw all men that does not necessitate that all men will be saved. Just as God desires all to be saved but not all are because not all will put their faith in Him so as to be saved.

You avoided my question that proves that either your view is incorrect or Jesus failed.
In what sense was Itzcoatl drawn to Jesus Christ that he had the chance to hear and reject?

[Are you agreeing with the Mormons that Jesus appeared to the Pre-Colombian Americans?]

 

[Aaron]

Foreknowledge is not causative.
Greek expression: prognosis
Pronunciation: PRAW gnoh seess
Strong’s Number: <G4268>
The Greek term prognosis, which means “foreknowledge,” indicates “knowledge beforehand.” The English term “prognosis” is derived from this Greek word. In the New Testament, prognosis and its verbal form indicate “advanced knowledge” (Rom_11:2; 1Pe_1:2; 1Pe_2:23).
Scripture teaches that God is aware of events before they happen.

It is God’s “foreknowledge” that provides the basis for the predictions of the prophets. Peter also tells that God had foreknowledge of His Son’s death on the cross long before the event occurred (1Pe_1:20). HKWG

Calvin insisted that God knows all events precisely because He sovereignly determines what is to happen in human history right down to the tiniest detail.
Now if you insist that foreknowledge equals cause then you have just made God the author of sin and evil as He knows all the sin and evil that will occur.

God knowing what will happen does not cause it to happen. God knows all those that will freely come to trust in Him for their salvation. Jesus’ death for our redemption was not an afterthought; it was part of God’s eternal plan. Act 2:23 "He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge,..." tells us. BSB

And again we see this in 1Pe 1:2 "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ..." BSB
His plan being worked out.

What's clear is that when speaking of God, foreknowledge means forethought. God acts according to His own counsel, and His counsel cannot be thwarted.

It is true that God cannot be charged with evil. Satan is the father lies. Yet, were it not God's counsel that Adam be the door of sin and death into the world, it could not have happened.

 

[Silverhair]

I ask the same of you. Let scripture explain scripture. Jesus said he would draw all men (John 12:32) and John saw who was drawn (Rev 5:9), so why do you not believe that Jesus DID what he said he would do? Jesus drew all men without distinction, but not all men without exception … because EVERYONE that is drawn will be raised (John 6:44) and ”everyone without exception” clearly did not come to Jesus starting in the First Century AD.

Jesus said He would draw all men and He does unless you do not believe the word of God. God has drawn men form all walks of life but they still have to believe the gospel message B4 they are saved. You make a logical error when you equate one being drawn meaning that the one drawn must be saved. That is not what the biblical text says.
Joh 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. This aligns with what Christ said in Joh 12:32.

But what does the next verse tell us
Joh 6:45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me—

So while all are drawn not all will come to Jesus.

Man can know God through the various means that God has provided but knowing about God is not the same a knowing God. While God desires that all will trust in Him He does not force anyone to do so.

So when you refer to Rev 5:9 it is true. People from every tribe and tongue and people and nation will be saved, it is those that as Rom 10:9 tell us "confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

So yes you should let scripture explain scripture. The word of God does not contradict itself.

 

[Silverhair]

You avoided my question that proves that either your view is incorrect or Jesus failed.
In what sense was Itzcoatl drawn to Jesus Christ that he had the chance to hear and reject?

[Are you agreeing with the Mormons that Jesus appeared to the Pre-Colombian Americans?]

I am not avoiding your question I am asking why you do not believe the word of God?

What did God tell us in Rom 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse."

Was He wrong? Were men not drawn to Him. What did Jesus say in Joh 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to Myself.”

You are holding to a man-made view that one being drawn equals one being saved. That is not biblical.

The only people that hold to that one to one view are universalists.

Either the word of God is true or that man-made religion is true. It cannot be both.

 

[Van]

He has chosen not to know it?

Wouldn’t He have to know about something first before choosing to not know it anymore?

Sounds like you’re saying that God’s mind functions like a database where He can internally delete files of information.

Please do not waste time with sophomoric argumentation. Scripture says God remembers no more. Full Stop

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

I see no reason why the world should be divided into two different definitions.

They are the Divine sense and the carnal sense of one word, which like innumerable other words, have different definitions.

What do say 'grass' is?

Or, 'a Pig'?

You gave several senses of the word, 'world`, which has more than one general definition

The Bible is right the first time and I don’t need to reform the words to understand them.

Use it.

 

[Zaatar71]

. I haven’t seen that that is what God meant by the word.

No..you have not seen it. God is willing that multitudes perish.

 

[Baptizo]

Please do not waste time with sophomoric argumentation. Scripture says God remembers no more. Full Stop

Right… Scripture also says God has hands and eyes and ears. I guess you want to take that literally also.

 

[Silverhair]

What's clear is that when speaking of God, foreknowledge means forethought. God acts according to His own counsel, and His counsel cannot be thwarted.

It is true that God cannot be charged with evil. Satan is the father lies. Yet, were it not God's counsel that Adam be the door of sin and death into the world, it could not have happened.

Whether you call it foreknowledge or forethought it does not equate to cause. You are trying to made an idea equal to an action.

God desires that all should come to repentance, that is forethought. But we know that not all do repent, why not if your premise were true?

But if your premise were true then God could in fact be charged with evil. Did God foreknow that Satan would sin, of course. So if forethought equals cause then He caused Satan to sin and also all the sins the man would commit.

If God's council is the cause of Satan sinning and thus Adam doing the same, no free will involved, then the responsibility for sin falls back to God as neither Satan or Adam could do other than God determined that they do.

Your man-made religion lands the responsibility for sin right back at the feet of God. If man has no free will but can only do as God has decreed there is no other option.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

it often signifies to regard with favor

denoting not mere cognition but an affection for the object in view.

a particular pointer that I liked more than the rest

"I know thee by name” (Ex 33:17).

“Ye have been rebellious against the Lord from the day that I knew you” (Deut 9:24).

“Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee” (Jer 1:5).

In these passages “knew” signifies either loved or appointed.

When in judgment God says, “depart from me I never knew you,” He is saying the exact opposite as He told Moses.

God is Talking to His Saved children in Exodus 33:17; whom He Knew by name AND THOSE WHO HE HAD GIVEN TO JESUS TO SAVE (JOHN 17).

God wasn't Talking to anyone lost, like those in Matthew 7.

 

[Van]

Right… Scripture also says God has hands and eyes and ears. I guess you want to take that literally also.

Yes, I believe what scripture says. The idea that God has hands or eyes is that He can alter or influence earthly circumstances, and He can make Himself aware of earth circumstances.

I provided a well studied view of the meaning of "before knowledge." Not one verse where the noun or verb form of the word appears suggests future knowledge. Rather each verse indicates prior knowledge being utilized in the present, such as a prior plan being implemented according to the "foreknowledge" of God.

You seemed to want to discuss aspects of future knowledge (does it fix the foreseen future). My view is that is an irrelevant discussion.

 

[atpollard]

Joh 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. This aligns with what Christ said in Joh 12:32.

John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

HIM drawn = HIM raised. Grammar 101.

 

[atpollard]

What did God tell us in Rom 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse."

How does that draw Itzcoatl to Jesus Christ 50+ years before Columbus arrives in the Americas with the Gospel?
(so that he can reject Jesus’ offer of salvation)

 

[Silverhair]

John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

HIM drawn = HIM raised. Grammar 101.

So since God draws all then all will be raised.

@atpollard HIM drawn = HIM raised. Grammar 101.

Your logic is 1] faulty and 2] not biblical

 

[Silverhair]

How does that draw Itzcoatl to Jesus Christ 50+ years before Columbus arrives in the Americas with the Gospel?
(so that he can reject Jesus’ offer of salvation)

How does that negate God drawing all men as Jesus said?

You are working way to had to deny the clear word of God so you can hold to the man-made religion that you trust.

But I do note that you did not even bother to respond to what I wrote in post #187. https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/the-definition-of-“foreknowledge”.131608/post-2920398

 

[Ben1445]

Jesus was delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God the Father.

Active.

Who, through the purpose of God, have been made holy by the Spirit, disciples of Jesus, made clean by his blood: May you have grace and peace in full measure. - 1 Peter 1:2 BBE

God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ. May God give you more and more grace and peace. - 1 Peter 1:2 NLT

chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. - 1 Peter 1:2 RSV

I wonder why reformed theology can’t see the difference between determinate counsel and foreknowledge.

 

[Ben1445]

He knew you, because He created you.

YOU.

Let's look at this outside of election.

He determined that YOU would come through only one of billions of the descendants of Adam, that is Noah...and everyone else was cut off by the Flood.

And then through all the wars and famines and pestilences and oppressions and injustices throughout the millennia, determined YOU would come into the world.

Either, that, or you are just one lucky guy.

Angel: Another soul just entered the world.

God: Oh, boy. What does the supply of individual plans and purposes look like?

Angel: We're good.

God: Whew! Thank God...er, uh, I mean..Thank ME! LOL. Well, he's one lucky guy.

Ridiculous, of course.

Now add God's purposes according to election...

He knew you would be in the world, because He determined that you would be...and then chose you. Sent you a preacher. Sent you the Spirit. And then gave YOU the power to mess that all up?

I could write fairy tales too but a scenario that you dreamed up doesn’t really add to the conversation. But I would agree with you and say that your idea is not Scriptural. But it is also nothing like what I am saying.