He does not take pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.
He desired Israel in the OT to repent.
He desired Israel's obedience rather than the blood of bulls.
He desires none perish but all repent.
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Does Free Will Limit God?
- Thread starter Layman
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He desired Israel in the OT to repent.
He desired Israel's obedience rather than the blood of bulls.
He desires none perish but all repent.
That's the heart of Calvinism's fault, God does not always get His way with fallen man.
That should first be noticed in the Garden with Adam and Eve.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Whether God gets what He wants or not does not have any affect on His being sovereign.
He desires all to come to repentance but not all do so by your logic He is not longer sovereign.
Thus we see that your logic is faulty.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
God would disagree with that.
God calls lost sinners to repentance
1] through creation Rom_1:20
2] the conviction of the Holy Spirit Joh_16:8-9
3] the gospel message Rom_1:16
4] observing Christians lives 1Pe_2:12
So unless you think God is is a liar then He must think that man can hear and believe the gospel message and turn to Him in faith.
Act 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
By your logic Paul should have told him there is nothing you can do and you could not even really ask that question as you would never want to be saved. Which then begs the question of why Paul even preached the gospel message at all?
Yes. (Like you had no idea I would say that)
Especially when the gospel is given, we all, that is each and every person, not just some who Reformed theology thinks are intended, are able to respond to God’s revelation of Himself.
If God wants to give every individual the free choice, He can and is still sovereign.
He instead has chosen out for Himself a peculiar people, and thru the atoning death of His Son Jesus provided and secured a real salvation for them
How can those who by very nature though refuse to acknowledge God as sovereign over them get saved by and of themselves?
God can never do anything contrary to His nature and attributes so cannot even conceive of uttering a lie
His will in salvation shall be accomplished and fulfilled exactly as He intended
His will (His plan) is going to be accomplished. All that believe will be saved and will be a part of the Elect (Christ).
But God desires that none perish, takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked, etc.
Here we need to distinguish between God's will as His desire and God's will as His plan.
God is sovereign, but He is not a whiny child.
I believe God can understand uttering a lie. I believe God has the power to utter a lie.
But I also believe it is impossible for God to lie because He will not as it is contrary to His nature.
His election and predestination is per the individual, not per the plan
He could not make a rock more then he can lift
Same way, was that Paul free will that got Him saved and commissioned as an Apostle of Christ, or due to the will of God for His life?
Layman
Member
It would seem to me that if God desired everyone to be saved, then He could save everyone regardless of their choice to reject Him. It is true that He takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked in one sense, and in another sense, He does.
Deuteronomy 28:63 (ESV) - And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you. And you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
This nonsense is nowhere in scripture
Those Christ died for He by Hs Death reconciled them to God, its a done deal Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Does this scripture say ?
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were provided the means reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
NO
Layman
Member
If the whole world was propitiated for, then everybody would be saved, but we know that isn't the case. John's consistent usage of "world" when referring to salvation is always limited to a specific group of people. In this case, he's talking about "us," the believers. Ephesians 2:8-9 says plainly that faith is a gift of God and not something we can attain by our own will.
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