Is This really Lordship Salvation view then?

[JesusFan]

Think that the biblical view of salvation would include a profession of faith is Jesus as Lord and savior, but such a profession would be evidenced by some fruit, such as a changed mindset regarding sin, God, church bible etc, and some type of good works unto others , so not just "faith alone" talk after having been really saved , but a life to some degree reflecting a change

As to me that is not Dr MacArthur view, but what Jesus Himself and His apostles taught, as one must make their election and calling surer, and not end up like another Judas in the end

 

[Silverhair]

Baptist thought
There are two opposed philosophies:
Lordship Salvation teaches that to obtain Salvation one must obey a set of rules within faith. (how you dress, length of hair etc. Legalism).

Easy believism teaches all you have to do is say a prayer and how you live afterward has no effect. (do what you want when you want, Antinomianism).
Both these views are wrong.

These two things are in opposition to each other. But to be honest, it's not an either or proposition. I reject both of them.

Look at it this way:
Is Jesus Lord without being our savior? Yes
Is Jesus our Savior without being our Lord? No
Does Jesus expect those who know him to live a certain way? Yes.
Do those "certain ways" in any way determine if one is saved or not? No.
Can someone know Jesus as Lord and Savior, and thus be saved, but not fully understand what all of that means? Yes.

The last question is the key, in my mind.

It's not unlike how I reject both Calvinism and Arminianism. I'm a Baptist.
HKUriah

 

[canadyjd]

Baptist thought
There are two opposed philosophies:
Lordship Salvation teaches that to obtain Salvation one must obey a set of rules within faith. (how you dress, length of hair etc. Legalism)..

That is NOT what Lordship Salvation teaches.

@JesusFan gave a well stated definition in the OP.

Peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

That is NOT what Lordship Salvation teaches.

@JesusFan gave a well stated definition in the OP.

Peace to you

Well since I do not hold to that or "easy believism" does it really matter.

What I have found is that people want to made rules.

That is why for me this expresses my thought quite well

Look at it this way:
Is Jesus Lord without being our savior? Yes
Is Jesus our Savior without being our Lord? No
Does Jesus expect those who know him to live a certain way? Yes.
Do those "certain ways" in any way determine if one is saved or not? No.
Can someone know Jesus as Lord and Savior, and thus be saved, but not fully understand what all of that means? Yes.

The last question is the key, in my mind.

It's not unlike how I reject both Calvinism and Arminianism. I'm a Baptist.

 

[Layman]

As to me that is not Dr MacArthur view, but what Jesus Himself and His apostles taught, as one must make their election and calling surer, and not end up like another Judas in the end

I don’t know if you’ve ever had a chance to read “So Great Salvation” by Charles Ryrie. It is a rebuttal to John MacArthur’s “The Gospel According to Jesus.”

Even though Ryrie comes a little too close to free grace theology at times and makes category errors of biblical terms, he will admit that a genuine faith will result in a changed life. He and MacArthur come to the same conclusion but have different ways to get there.

 

[David Lamb]

Think that the biblical view of salvation would include a profession of faith is Jesus as Lord and savior, but such a profession would be evidenced by some fruit, such as a changed mindset regarding sin, God, church bible etc, and some type of good works unto others , so not just "faith alone" talk after having been really saved , but a life to some degree reflecting a change

As to me that is not Dr MacArthur view, but what Jesus Himself and His apostles taught, as one must make their election and calling surer, and not end up like another Judas in the end

I have never been sure what precisely is meant by "Lordship Salvation." If it means believing that Jesus is Lord, and that those who claim to believe in Him are to obey Him, then I agree with it. (If it means something more than that, then I would need to know what the "something more" is before I said whether or not I agree with it.) When some argue that sinners are not required to believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, I am tempted to ask, "Who is the Jesus that sinners are required to believe in for salvation?" If somebody says that they believe in Jesus, but don't believe He is Lord, then I say that the Jesus they believe in isn't the Jesus we read of in God's word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Baptist thought
There are two opposed philosophies:
Lordship Salvation teaches that to obtain Salvation one must obey a set of rules within faith. (how you dress, length of hair etc. Legalism).

Easy believism teaches all you have to do is say a prayer and how you live afterward has no effect. (do what you want when you want, Antinomianism).
Both these views are wrong.

These two things are in opposition to each other. But to be honest, it's not an either or proposition. I reject both of them.

Look at it this way:
Is Jesus Lord without being our savior? Yes
Is Jesus our Savior without being our Lord? No
Does Jesus expect those who know him to live a certain way? Yes.
Do those "certain ways" in any way determine if one is saved or not? No.
Can someone know Jesus as Lord and Savior, and thus be saved, but not fully understand what all of that means? Yes.

The last question is the key, in my mind.

It's not unlike how I reject both Calvinism and Arminianism. I'm a Baptist.
HKUriah

one is legalism

the other is licentiousness.

The truth is in the center

 

[JesusFan]

I have never been sure what precisely is meant by "Lordship Salvation." If it means believing that Jesus is Lord, and that those who claim to believe in Him are to obey Him, then I agree with it. (If it means something more than that, then I would need to know what the "something more" is before I said whether or not I agree with it.) When some argue that sinners are not required to believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, I am tempted to ask, "Who is the Jesus that sinners are required to believe in for salvation?" If somebody says that they believe in Jesus, but don't believe He is Lord, then I say that the Jesus they believe in isn't the Jesus we read of in God's word.

I think many misunderstood what is meant by that term, but also at times those holding to it have gone to an extreme view. For example, saying that "unless Jesus is Lord over all areas of your life now, really is Lord over none" can make it seem like a legalism type based system.

My OP posting is how I would define it as meaning from the biblical perspective

 

[JesusFan]

one is legalism

the other is licentiousness.

The truth is in the center

Which I think my definition in the OP fits

 

[JesusFan]

I don’t know if you’ve ever had a chance to read “So Great Salvation” by Charles Ryrie. It is a rebuttal to John MacArthur’s “The Gospel According to Jesus.”

Even though Ryrie comes a little too close to free grace theology at times and makes category errors of biblical terms, he will admit that a genuine faith will result in a changed life. He and MacArthur come to the same conclusion but have different ways to get there.

Think both tried to hard to prove their case, as Dr Ryrie wants to not be under legalism and bondage, but at times as you stated seems to be totally profess only required, while Dr mac wants to have strong believers, but tends to at times stress obedience more so than relationship and fellowship

 

[JesusFan]

That is NOT what Lordship Salvation teaches.

@JesusFan gave a well stated definition in the OP.

Peace to you

Think many have a preconceived notion that Lordship salvations teaches saved by obedience and works

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Which I think my definition in the OP fits

did the tax collector cry out to his lord and savior. or beg for forgiveness and mercy?

its one thing to declare him lord after we are saved. than to have to determine it before your saved when you can not even really know or understand who he is

 

[David Lamb]

did the tax collector cry out to his lord and savior. or beg for forgiveness and mercy?

its one thing to declare him lord after we are saved. than to have to determine it before your saved when you can not even really know or understand who he is

But who is this Jesus who isn't Lord? How can you believe in the biblical Jesus if you don't know Who He is? Being Lord is an integral part of Who He is. I should make clear that I don't mean that a sinner has to understand all the theological details of His Lordship in order to be saved. But what did the apostles say to the jailer? "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

 

[JesusFan]

But who is this Jesus who isn't Lord? How can you believe in the biblical Jesus if you don't know Who He is? Being Lord is an integral part of Who He is. I should make clear that I don't mean that a sinner has to understand all the theological details of His Lordship in order to be saved. But what did the apostles say to the jailer? "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

Think we even those advocating for Lordship fail to see is that when the person receives Jesus as their Savior, they also received Him as their Lord, as the Father made that so when saved, but now up to us to submit over to that Lordship

 

[Silverhair]

But who is this Jesus who isn't Lord? How can you believe in the biblical Jesus if you don't know Who He is? Being Lord is an integral part of Who He is. I should make clear that I don't mean that a sinner has to understand all the theological details of His Lordship in order to be saved. But what did the apostles say to the jailer? "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

Jesus has always been LORD whether one admits it or not.

We are told who Jesus is through the gospel message but the person has to accept that truth before He is Lord of their life.

If you will note that the same Greek word is used in vs 30 {Sirs G2962} and 31 {Lord G2962}

For the jailer Paul was one who had authority for Paul Jesus was God/the Messiah.

So what the jailer would have understood is that Jesus had the authority, the power to save him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But who is this Jesus who isn't Lord?

did I say he was not lord?

How can you believe in the biblical Jesus if you don't know Who He is?

When a rescuer comes to pull you from a burning building. do you know who that rescuer is. or do you trust that he can save you and allow him to do his job?

Being Lord is an integral part of Who He is. I should make clear that I don't mean that a sinner has to understand all the theological details of His Lordship in order to be saved. But what did the apostles say to the jailer? "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

Again, I can not agree. the bible says the things of God are foolishness..

Until a person is saved, about all he can understand is the basics.

As the man who begged Jesus to save his daughter said when Jesus asked him if he believed. I believe help me with my unbelief..

He has to become my savior before he can become my lord..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Think we even those advocating for Lordship fail to see is that when the person receives Jesus as their Savior, they also received Him as their Lord, as the Father made that so when saved, but now up to us to submit over to that Lordship

Yes. But they may not understand this yet.. thats the point..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus has always been LORD whether one admits it or not.

We are told who Jesus is through the gospel message but the person has to accept that truth before He is Lord of their life.

If you will note that the same Greek word is used in vs 30 {Sirs G2962} and 31 {Lord G2962}

For the jailer Paul was one who had authority for Paul Jesus was God/the Messiah.

So what the jailer would have understood is that Jesus had the authority, the power to save him.

great point, the lord (power) to save

 

[JesusFan]

Yes. But they may not understand this yet.. thats the point..

The great danger of Free Grace [position is can end up with many clinging their hope upon a one time altar call. at a crusade, at the church pews, and yet never really confirmed were really saved or just emotionalism. while extreme lordship gets us to never trust have been really saved, as keep looking at our behavior and obedience levels.

 

[Silverhair]

The great danger of Free Grace [position is can end up with many clinging their hope upon a one time altar call. at a crusade, at the church pews, and yet never really confirmed were really saved or just emotionalism. while extreme lordship gets us to never trust have been really saved, as keep looking at our behavior and obedience levels.

And that is why we need good biblical discipleship for new believers. There are many false teachers just waiting to lead the new believer astray with fine sounding words.