The Heart Of The Gospel

[Salty]

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[Silverhair]

Let me clarify first of all that I did not say that it isn't possible to confess that Jesus is Lord in prayer. What I meant was that confessing Jesus Christ as Lord does not happen only in prayer. It happens when giving one's testimony. It happened when the Ethiopian answered Philip. And yes, as you say, God would have heard him, but we're not told that he (the Ethiopian) was praying, but that he was responding to Philip'. So the matter of confessing Jesus as Lord is not a biblical basis for what has become known as "the sinners prayer."

But what is the sinners prayer? As far as I know it is just something that Paul Washer coined.

To me a "sinners prayer"would just a sinner calling out to God for salvation.

 

[Salty]

But what is the sinners prayer? As far as I know it is just something that Paul Washer coined.

To me a "sinners prayer"would just a sinner calling out to God for salvation.

Some consider it the "Repeat after me....."
another words - do folks actually know what they are saying -
easy to repeat - without understanding.

 

[Silverhair]

Some consider it the "Repeat after me....."
another words - do folks actually know what they are saying -
easy to repeat - without understanding.

I would say the problem is not the "sinners prayer" but the presentation of the gospel message.

It seems to come down to is the one presenting the gospel message just trying to add names to a tally sheet or are they trying to save souls.

The one hearing the gospel message does not have to know everything about Jesus but they do need to know that they are lost sinners and that Jesus is the only means of salvation.

So it would seem we are attacking the wrong end of the issue.

 

[Salty]

I would say the problem is not the "sinners prayer" but the presentation of the gospel message.
\\\

SH, you hit the nail on the head!

I remember one night, I went to council a young boy - when Mr. Bean came around to collect the cards, I told him the boy did not get saved.
Mr. Bean got upset - that I did not fill out a card! I guess their thinking was that if you come fwd- your get saved. Well, as I counseled the boy, I had read rom 6:23 - and asked the boy - you sinned, right- he said he had never sinned. Then I found out that he would come fwd about once a month to get saved. Well, shortly after that, I left for Germany, so I dont know what happened later.

In my home church, when someone came forward - (normally) the counselor would take the individual to a seperate room for real counseling for salvation or whatever they needed. - Now, if someone came to say they wanted to get baptized - that was something else.

 

[Silverhair]

SH, you hit the nail on the head!

I remember one night, I went to council a young boy - when Mr. Bean came around to collect the cards, I told him the boy did not get saved.
Mr. Bean got upset - that I did not fill out a card! I guess their thinking was that if you come fwd- your get saved. Well, as I counseled the boy, I had read rom 6:23 - and asked the boy - you sinned, right- he said he had never sinned. Then I found out that he would come fwd about once a month to get saved. Well, shortly after that, I left for Germany, so I dont know what happened later.

In my home church, when someone came forward - (normally) the counselor would take the individual to a seperate room for real counseling for salvation or whatever they needed. - Now, if someone came to say they wanted to get baptized - that was something else.

We had an outreach at a coffee shop [The House] in Calgary. I would have those that said they understood what salvation was to present the gospel to me in their own words.

By doing that it helped both of use improve in how we presented the gospel message.

 

[Zaatar71]

Salvation is of the Lord why would anyone doubt that.

We do not know why some would doubt that. We think it is because they have a man centered theology, so they have to give a big part of salvation to man, and not to God.

Where the C/R's error is that they think they were chosen before creation

This is not an error, but rather a biblical fact. To deny this truth is a direct denial of scripture, and turns out to be a denial of Jonah 2:9

and that faith is a work.

Anything you do, that comes from you, is a work by definition

Price did well until he added the words "not potential or conditional, or based on anything we think, do or say.

 

[Zaatar71]

But what is the sinners prayer? As far as I know it is just something that Paul Washer coined.

To me a "sinners prayer"would just a sinner calling out to God for salvation.

No. The sinners prayer came from Charles Finney's "new measures". Walking forward in a meeting is not "being saved".
Repeating a prayer, like a parrot, is not being saved.

 

[Silverhair]

We do not know why some would doubt that. We think it is because they have a man centered theology, so they have to give a big part of salvation to man, and not to God.

Those that reject God do not have a theology. Theology is the study of God and His character. So not man centered theology.

This is not an error, but rather a biblical fact. To deny this truth is a direct denial of scripture, and turns out to be a denial of Jonah 2:9

To think you were saved before creation is the error of the C/R view. God's plan was set before creation that all those that would trust in Christ would be saved.

Anything you do, that comes from you, is a work by definition

That is why Paul said that faith is not a work. That is just what those of the C/R view call faith as they think God has to give them faith after they are saved.

Look at Eph 2:8-9
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of your own doing, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no man may boast.

or here
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus,

The bible is clear that we are save because we believe.
Rom 3:21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

Rom 3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

So the question is, if God does not consider faith a work but rather is the requirement for salvation then why do you of the C/R view deny this biblical teaching?

 

[Silverhair]

No. The sinners prayer came from Charles Finney's "new measures". Walking forward in a meeting is not "being saved".
Repeating a prayer, like a parrot, is not being saved.

So are you saying that someone calling out to God for salvation is not that sinners prayer?

It seems to me that those of the C/R view want to diminish the value of a person freely trusting in God for their salvation via calling out to Him through prayer as it does not fit your philosophy that God has to drag you to Him via some irresistible force.

My question for you is how do you know who is and is not saved if they walk forward? Did God give you some special insight into His workings in men's lives? You seem to be taking quite q bit of authority tat you really do not have.

If the person truly believes and repeats the prayer "like a parrot" does that mean they were not save because of that?

But at the same time you are sure you were saved before you even had faith in Christ Jesus because some man told you that was how it happened even though the bible tells you that view is wrong.