Galatians 5:22 Faithfulness is not the same as faith. As a result of faith, we begin in the Spirit (Galatians 3:2-3).
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John 1:12-13 revisited.
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
But Gal 5:22 says Faith is a fruit of the Spirit. Do you deny that ?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Fruit of the Spirit
The word “fruit” is singular, indicating that these qualities constitute a unity, all of which should be found in a believer who lives under the control of the Spirit.
Test your faith by your works. The fruit/works believers should have in their lives is listed in Gal_5:22-23. These are contrasted with the works of the flesh Gal_5:19-21
Mat_3:8 Joh_15:2; *Joh_15:5 Rom_8:5; Heb_12:11 Jas_3:17-18
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
So are you telling me that Faith is not a fruit of the Spirit as per Gal 5:22 ? So is it from the flesh ?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Faithfulness is a fruit of the Spirit for those that already believe just as love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and self-control are.
It really is to bad that you fight so hard against the word of God. Your continued denial of His word does make me question just how serious you are about finding the truth.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
So are you saying Faith isnt a fruit of the Spirit according to Gal 5:22 ? Now who is denying Gods plain word ?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Do you actually read a post before you respond?
The word “fruit” is singular, indicating that these qualities constitute a unity, all of which should be found in a believer who lives under the control of the Spirit.
Test your faith by your works. The fruit/works believers should have in their lives is listed in Gal_5:22-23. These are contrasted with the works of the flesh Gal_5:19-21
Gal 5:22 is not faith to believe but "faithfulness" in living the Christian life.
(NASB 95) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
(NET+) But the fruit of the SpiritN41 is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
(NIV 02) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
NKJV-rs/) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
(NRSV/) By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness,
(UASV+) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
So answer your own question BF, "Now who is denying Gods plain word ?"
John 1:12-13 NASB
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a man, but of God.
We now have 5 pages and 87 posts presenting, supposedly, insightful interpretations of John 1:12-13.
Here is my supposedly insightful interpretation:
"As many as received Him" refers to "those who believe in His (Christ's) name. Thus they accepted as truth the gospel of Christ.
"He gave the right to become" refers to crediting the person's faith as righteousness. Only those whose faith He credits as righteousness have the "right" to become born anew children of God.
This spiritual rebirth was not physical rebirth, of blood, and was not initiated by human lust or will, but by God alone.
The close coupling of receiving the right to become, and being born by the will of God indicates a rapid sequence of events, with no discernible delay between receiving the right (under the New Covenant) and becoming a spiritual child of God.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a man, but of God.
We now have 5 pages and 87 posts presenting, supposedly, insightful interpretations of John 1:12-13.
Here is my supposedly insightful interpretation:
"As many as received Him" refers to "those who believe in His (Christ's) name. Thus they accepted as truth the gospel of Christ.
"He gave the right to become" refers to crediting the person's faith as righteousness. Only those whose faith He credits as righteousness have the "right" to become born anew children of God.
This spiritual rebirth was not physical rebirth, of blood, and was not initiated by human lust or will, but by God alone.
The close coupling of receiving the right to become, and being born by the will of God indicates a rapid sequence of events, with no discernible delay between receiving the right (under the New Covenant) and becoming a spiritual child of God.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
So are you saying Faith isnt a fruit of the Spirit according to Gal 5:22 ? Now who is denying Gods plain word ? Can you explain how a person with the Holy Spirit fruit of faithfulness, didnt have the fruit of Faith ?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Faithfulness to God is a concept deeply rooted in religious belief, emphasizing steadfast loyalty, unwavering trust, and obedience to God's will. It means believing in God's promises, even when they seem unlikely, and consistently acting in accordance with His teachings. This includes living a life of integrity, keeping commitments, and persevering in faith, even during challenging times.
That's a whole different topic, Bright. What we are discussing here is whether or not John 1:12-13 says that a person must be born again to believe. I understand that you only see two options, born again, or the flesh, but that's not what the Bible teaches. It's what you're system requires the Bible to say.
OT believes had faith, and at best they had the Holy Spirit with them, but not in them, whether He was "upon" them, or with them in other ways. I have yet to be convinced that He indwelled them in the OT. There's too much Scripture that says otherwise. So they were not born again.
How could God be with them in the OT? And could some of those ways apply in the NT? That's the questions that you should be asking. These are all ways that could potentially bring a person to faith in the OT.
God was with them in Word.
God was with them by being upon them.
God was with them with in person, like when Jesus, God incarnate walked with us.
God was with them in the Tabernacle.
God was with them in the Temple.
God was with them in the Ark of the Covenant.
These are all options, along with the dreaded flesh. But is the flesh really the flesh? As was pointed out in another thread, every proof text used to prove that man cannot come to faith by the flesh, has mans coming to faith. Yet what is never considered is that many of those passages have God with them in other ways. There's one example below (37-42)
This is still OT, but listen to what Jesus said here. Remember, they had not yet received the Holy Spirit. Think about the implications of this. Just the mere presence of God was enough light for them to believe.
John 12:34-36 The people answered Him, "We have heard from the law that the Christ remains forever; and how can You say, 'The Son of Man must be lifted up'? Who is this Son of Man?" Then Jesus said to them, "A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light." These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.
Interesting that He goes on to say...
37-42 But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again: "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them." These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him. Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;
Today, we as believers are all Temples of the Holy Spirit. We are all God being brought to the World, in Word and in Spirit. This is God once again reclaiming His creation. Does being in the presence of a Temple of the Holy Spirit, a believer, allow a person, an unbeliever to believe, but not by the flesh? Is this why we are told that a lamp does not hide under a table (Matt 5:14-15)? The questions to be asked, and answered, if we can only get out of these useless discussions that play the Calvinist/humanist play book step by step.
"In speaking of Christ’s coming, John 1:14 says, “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” A more literal interpretation of this phrase would be that Christ “pitched his tent” or “tabernacled” among us. In other words, Jesus, himself, is a temple, the very presence of God not only meeting humanity but becoming a human as well."
www.penningtonpark.com
The Significance of the Temple in the Bible — Pennington Park Church
by: Joel Israel, Staff member at Pennington Park Church Do you know that person that habitually walks into the middle of a movie and starts asking questions like, “What’s going on?” or “Who’s that guy?” Are you that person? If so, let me give you a moment to recognize the err
www.penningtonpark.com
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You really do have a problem with the English language don't you.
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
When is one led by the Spirit BF? Before or after they are saved?
Rom_8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
And when are we sons of God BF?
Gal_3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
The person has faith in the risen Lord and then the fruit of the Holy Spirit is given to those believers just as the bible says.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
The Holy Spirit does not give you faith to believe BF that is just another of the errors of the C/R religion.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Do you deny faith is the fruit of the Spirit? It's plainly written Gal 5:22. There's no sense in showing you scriptures, for you don't accept them
1 John 1:12-13 says that those who believed were given the right to become sons of God, born again.
The text is in the same vein as:
Acts Chapter 13
48 | And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. |
John Chapter 10
26 | But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. |
27 | My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: |
John Chapter 8
47 | He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. |
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF read what I posted. Are you not capable of understand what I wrote?
You continue you try and mislead people BF.
(NASB 95) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
(NET+) But the fruit of the SpiritN41 is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
(NIV 02) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
NKJV-rs/) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
(NRSV/) By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness,
(UASV+) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
It's plainly written Gal 5:22. There's no sense in showing you scriptures, for you don't accept them.
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
That means they were given the ability as well, which was from having been born of God. See naturally no man had the ability to believe in Jesus Jn 6:44 So look that word up for power exousia in Jn 1:12