Lol…surely you’re not trying to steal Van’s audience!
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Believing Into Christ based on God crediting your faith as righteousness
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Lol…surely you’re not trying to steal Van’s audience!
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Liked that did ya.
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
This version is The King James in 1 John 4:3;
"And every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist,
of which you have heard that it is coming and now is already in the world."
"Believing Into Christ based on God crediting your faith as righteousness,"
is a false statement IMPLYING salvation as being initiated by the lost sinner and not The Savior, JESUS CHRIST.This is a sentence fabricated with the sin-cursed reasoning in a mind that is under the curse of the Law.
And, it is Antichrist.
I do not know of any evidence that there is writing anywhere in the history of mankind where a statement exists that is similar to thisand I do not believe any evidence exists that this sentence can be found anywhere on earth, except in Van's head. Period.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Do you not have these verses in your bible?
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
Act 16:30 He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."
Rom 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
We do, cannot save ourselves but God has set the condition of our salvation, faith in His son.
You are in error when you say that view is from the ANTICHRIST. You are actually denying clear scripture.
As we are told by Paul
Rom 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
No unmasking was needed. I openly stated my reason for posting what I did. It was to question your accusation of being off-topic. If I had claimed to be answering a question from you, and then failed to address that question, that would be a different matter, but I made no such claim, and did not intend to answer a question from you. I hope that is clearer.
Agree. 100%.
You’ve got to love how he always quotes Al Gore.
It is very hard to take these quotes seriously.
Since it seems to be irrelevant to you which version you use, why do you make such a big deal about the words. You want everyone to listen to you but you hide your sources as if they couldn’t stand up to scrutiny.
No good teacher tells anyone to figure out what is the textbook and get it on your own. If you want to teach something, you will need to do it openly and honestly.
There is too much going on in this thread, but the way you state this is as if you think that someone is implying that they are thinking the Saviour into existence. Jesus came into the world to save sinners. What more initiation do you require?
More false claims from someone who knows the truth.
1) Deflection by asking an irrelevant question, did you forget....
2) Did I ever claim eis has to be translated as into? No, of course not. Such a obvious falsehood. What did I claim? See post #4. I claimed I was citing a version of scripture that translates "eis" as into.
3) The idiotic claim I do not know of the many ways "eis" is translated is again an effort to deflect.
4) Addressing my claimed poor behavior rather than the topic is off topic.
5) Of course I like people who post disagreements with my views and show me where I am mistaken in my view.
But
The false claims about my attitudes are a waste of time, and hinder discussion of biblical doctrine.
The one who believes into Him, who is positionally sanctified within Christ, is not judged, is a true statement.
Those who ask questions but do not intend to answer them are unmasked as lacking integrity.
Would it not be easier for everybody just to name the translation you mean?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You are the one that keeps posting the same thing over and over Van.
We believe "in" Christ Jesus and God places us "into" Christ Jesus.
Since you want to read "eis" as into then do so but it does not have to be translated as such does it?
The one who believes in Him, who is positionally sanctified within Christ, is not judged, is a true statement.
Mat_18:6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. BSB [KJV, NASB, NET, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV, TRI, UASV]
Joh_6:29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” BSB [KJV, NASB, NET, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV, TRI, UASV]
Joh_12:44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in Me does not believe in Me alone, but in the One who sent Me. BSB [KJV, NASB, NET, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV, TRI, UASV]
None of these translations support your "into" understanding Van.
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More false claims!
1) Is it irrelevant to Van which version you use? This claim has no support, as I have posted which versions I think best provide insight into the actual gospel. NASB ring a bell?
2) I make a big deal of correctly translating the OT text and NT text into English.
3) I do not hide my sources. See post #26
4) Good teachers remove those whose intent is to disrupt actual discussion of biblical doctrine.
5) Have you supported the biblical doctrine of Positional Sanctification, that God alone transfers individuals into Christ based on crediting their faith as righteousness?
Good grief! The issue is what was the intended meaning, to believe things about Christ, or to believe such that God transfers the individual into Christ?
To believe in someone, is the action of the believer, but to believe into someone refers to action by the believer AND God!
Lets consider your statement,
The one who believes in Him, who is positionally sanctified within Christ, is not judged, is a true statement.
Not everyone who believes things about Christ is positionally sanctified! Recall Matthew 7 and those who said Lord, Lord, or those of Matthew 13 who believed but fell away.
I wonder if you deny it is God alone who decides whether a person's belief should be credited as righteousness, and on that basis to transfer the individual into Christ, or whether you believe if a person puts their faith in Christ, they are automatically saved?
The statement does not imply salvation as being "Initiated" by the lost sinner. How do you think a person believes the gospel without first hearing and heeding the gospel. Does anyone come to faith in Christ without first being "drawn" (attracted by lovingkindness) by the Father? No, of course not. But here is yet another Calvinist hurling idiotic claims to avoid discussion of the topic.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Good grief Van, do you actually read.
The one who believes in Him, who is positionally sanctified within Christ, is not judged, is a true statement.
We believe in Christ then we are positionally sanctified within Christ by the Father.
It would seem you do not even understand what you have written.
Once again you claim to be a mind reader, but ignore my post.
Here, again is what I asked:
I wonder if you deny it is God alone who decides whether a person's belief should be credited as righteousness, and on that basis to transfer the individual into Christ, or whether you believe if a person puts their faith in Christ, they are automatically saved?
Did you answer the question? Did you address the basis for the Father postionally sanctifying the person into Christ. Nope, but you ask me if I read.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
eis
Lou Nida - to, towards, in the direction of
Intermediate greek english lexicon - to, into, in, for, into, in, for
LXGRCANLEX - To, Into, in, for,
DBL Greek - to, into, on, inside, among, in order to
BDAG - into, unto, in toward, until, on for throughout, with respect to. with reference to.
lets be serious though
“The one who believes into Him is not judged;
believes into is nonsensical in the english language, You believe in, on, or you trust someone, you do not believe into someone..
Lou Nida - to, towards, in the direction of
Intermediate greek english lexicon - to, into, in, for, into, in, for
LXGRCANLEX - To, Into, in, for,
DBL Greek - to, into, on, inside, among, in order to
BDAG - into, unto, in toward, until, on for throughout, with respect to. with reference to.
lets be serious though
“The one who believes into Him is not judged;
believes into is nonsensical in the english language, You believe in, on, or you trust someone, you do not believe into someone..
If God credits your faith as righteousness and on that basis transfers you spiritually into Christ, then you have "believed into Him."
Claiming you cannot make sense of this view is nonsensical.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 WPNT
13 Now we are obligated to always give thanks to God about you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you into salvation, through sanctification of spirit and belief in truth, 14 to which He called you through our gospel, so as to obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
From the beginning - of the New Covenant.
through sanctification of spirit - being set apart spiritually, into Christ's spiritual body.
and belief in the truth - God crediting our faith as righteousness
When we are chosen into salvation, we are chosen by being transferred into Christ on the basis of our faith being credited by God as righteousness.
13 Now we are obligated to always give thanks to God about you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you into salvation, through sanctification of spirit and belief in truth, 14 to which He called you through our gospel, so as to obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
From the beginning - of the New Covenant.
through sanctification of spirit - being set apart spiritually, into Christ's spiritual body.
and belief in the truth - God crediting our faith as righteousness
When we are chosen into salvation, we are chosen by being transferred into Christ on the basis of our faith being credited by God as righteousness.