Foreknown....found this on Monergism

[Zaatar71]

You do realize than when speaking of God foreknowledge, exhaustive knowledge and Omniscience actually mean the same thing. Or perhaps you did not.

Well since God, being Omniscient, foreknows all who will exist and we are told He loves the whole world and desires that they all come to repentance why are not all saved? Could it be that He only saves those that freely trust in His risen Son?

You were correct God is not passive in salvation as only He can save you. That is biblical but what you

Once again, you show how error can and does take place as you conflate some biblical definition, with non biblical definition! Thanks again!

 

[Silverhair]

Such posts and sources become necessary, when people demonstrate that even with help, they miss the clear truth! Thanks for your feedback!

If you have to trust in man then you are trusting in the wrong thing.

 

[Silverhair]

Once again, you show how error can and does take place as you conflate some biblical definition, with non biblical definition! Thanks again!

Care to point out the difference from a biblical perspective Z?

 

[Van]

That translation really mangles the Greek text though

Disparaging claim, devoid of truth.

 

[Van]

God foreknowledge ties into His exhaustive knowledge and Omniscience, as all those whom He elected and predestined He knew them in an intimate sense, as He was the cause behind their salvation, not just passive observer of it

Yet another nonsense claim, as foreknowledge refers to knowledge acquired or formulated in the past being utilized in the present, such as implementing a predetermined plan.

 

[Van]

Thanks for offering your version ,so people can see the stark contrast!

Yes, post #14 provides the biblically based contextual meaning of foreknowledge. And it is very different than the view based on the meaning of the English word, found in poorly chosen versions.

The English word meaning is an awareness of something before it happens or exists, i.e. knowledge of the future, whereas the Greek word meanings refer to knowledge acquired or formulated in the past, being used in the present. As you said, stark contrast!

 

[Zaatar71]

If you have to trust in man then you are trusting in the wrong thing.

Is that really True SH?
Acts 8: Was the Eunuch trusting in the wrong thing?
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

 

[Zaatar71]

Yes, post #14 provides the biblically based contextual meaning of foreknowledge. And it is very different than the view based on the meaning of the English word, found in poorly chosen versions.

The English word meaning is an awareness of something before it happens or exists, i.e. knowledge of the future, whereas the Greek word meanings refer to knowledge acquired or formulated in the past, being used in the present. As you said, stark contrast!

That is not the biblical usage of the word however. Those who study it out come to learn.

 

[Van]

That is not the biblical usage of the word however. Those who study it out come to learn.

You can deny the obvious till the cows come home, post #14 lays out the biblical usage for anyone to study.

 

[Zaatar71]

You can deny the obvious till the cows come home, post #14 lays out the biblical usage for anyone to study.

lol...in your world, maybe. I have not been in churches that fail to study it out.

 

[Silverhair]

Is that really True SH?
Acts 8: Was the Eunuch trusting in the wrong thing?
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

You do notice that Philip pointed him to Jesus via scripture. Philip did not say well this is what I think scripture means and than change the words or meaning of words to fit his special understanding.

 

[Zaatar71]

Care to point out the difference from a biblical perspective Z?

Yes Sh we can. Often what people look at is the biblical use of the word...to know. In the dictionary the first 5 definitions read like this;
To perceive with certainty; to understand clearly; to have a clear and certain perception of truth, fact, or any thing that actually exists. To know a thing pre

1.includes all doubt or uncertainty of its existence. We know what we see with our eyes, or perceive by other senses. We know that fire and water are different substances. We know that truth and falsehood express ideas incompatible with each other. We know that a circle is not a square. We do not know the truth of reports, nor can we always know what to believe.

2. To be informed of; to be taught. It is not unusual for us to say we know things from information, when we rely on the veracity of the informer.

3. To distinguish; as, to know one man from another. We know a fixed star from a planet by its twinkling.

4. To recognize by recollection, remembrance, representation or description. We do not always know a person after a long absence. We sometimes know a man by having seen his portrait, or having heard him described.

5. To be no stranger to; to be familiar. This man is well known to us.

But then it says this;

6.6. In scripture, to have sexual commerce with. Genesis 4:1.

Webster was a professed Christian, so he had some biblical background.

So, you look at how the bible uses the word...it speaks of an intimate knowledge of people, particularly The sexual intimacy and closeness of the marriage bed. Observe;
Gen4: And Adam ....knew... Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

17 And Cain... knew... his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch

25 And Adam knew his wife again and she bare a son,

In the N.T. Mt1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew..... her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

All of these Husbands did not forget who their wives were...To know, to know again spoke of an intimate knowledge of the person.

So in Romans 8:29 ..For Whom He Did....Foreknow......enter into a loving relationship with, an intimate knowledge of. He also did Predestinate...Do you see it? God has a general knowledge of all men, all things because He is Omniscient.. He knows everything.
So this is not redundant, but rather an intentional Covenant Knowledge of all the children God the Father has given to the Son;
Heb.2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
Think it through...hope it helps!

 

[Silverhair]

Yes Sh we can. Often what people look at is the biblical use of the word...to know. In the dictionary the first 5 definitions read like this;
To perceive with certainty; to understand clearly; to have a clear and certain perception of truth, fact, or any thing that actually exists. To know a thing pre

1.includes all doubt or uncertainty of its existence. We know what we see with our eyes, or perceive by other senses. We know that fire and water are different substances. We know that truth and falsehood express ideas incompatible with each other. We know that a circle is not a square. We do not know the truth of reports, nor can we always know what to believe.

2. To be informed of; to be taught. It is not unusual for us to say we know things from information, when we rely on the veracity of the informer.

3. To distinguish; as, to know one man from another. We know a fixed star from a planet by its twinkling.

4. To recognize by recollection, remembrance, representation or description. We do not always know a person after a long absence. We sometimes know a man by having seen his portrait, or having heard him described.

5. To be no stranger to; to be familiar. This man is well known to us.

But then it says this;

6.6. In scripture, to have sexual commerce with. Genesis 4:1.

Webster was a professed Christian, so he had some biblical background.

So, you look at how the bible uses the word...it speaks of an intimate knowledge of people, particularly The sexual intimacy and closeness of the marriage bed. Observe;
Gen4: And Adam ....knew... Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

17 And Cain... knew... his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch

25 And Adam knew his wife again and she bare a son,

In the N.T. Mt1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew..... her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

All of these Husbands did not forget who their wives were...To know, to know again spoke of an intimate knowledge of the person.

So in Romans 8:29 ..For Whom He Did....Foreknow......enter into a loving relationship with, an intimate knowledge of. He also did Predestinate...Do you see it? God has a general knowledge of all men, all things because He is Omniscient.. He knows everything.
So this is not redundant, but rather an intentional Covenant Knowledge of all the children God the Father has given to the Son;
Heb.2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
Think it through...hope it helps!

Wow you really do have some weird views of God.

Or could foreknowledge mean just what we see in scripture.
"to have knowledge before hand" G4267
Which come from these two words:
G4253 before & G1097 to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of

foreknowledge G4268
Which comes from G4267

So what we see is that God had knowledge before hand not intimate relationships as you seem to think

So what do we see in scripture? Well we do not see the odd understanding that you try to attach to the word.


G4268
Act_2:23 This oneG3778 [2by theG3588 3confirmedG3724 4counselG1012 5andG2532 6foreknowledgeG4268 G3588 7of GodG2316 1delivered up];G1560 having taken,G2983 [2byG1223 4handsG5495 3lawlessG459 5staking him upG4362 1you did away with].G337

1Pe_1:2 according toG2596 the foreknowledgeG4268 of GodG2316 the father,G3962 inG1722 sanctificationG38 of spirit,G4151 inG1519 obedienceG5218 andG2532 sprinklingG4473 of bloodG129 of JesusG* Christ.G5547 FavorG5484 to youG1473 andG2532 peaceG1515 be multiplied.G4129

G4267
Act_26:5 foreknowingG4267 meG1473 from the beginning,G509 (ifG1437 they should wantG2309 to witness)G3140 thatG3754 according toG2596 theG3588 exactestG196 sectG139 G3588 of ourG2251 religionG2356 I livedG2198 a Pharisee.G*

Rom_8:29 ForG3754 of whomG3739 he foreknew,G4267 alsoG2532 he predefinedG4309 conformable toG4832 theG3588 imageG1504 G3588 of his son,G5207 G1473 forG1519 G3588 him to beG1510.1 G1473 first-bornG4416 amongG1722 manyG4183 brethren.G80

Rom_11:2 [2did notG3756 3thrust awayG683 G3588 1God]G2316 G3588 his peopleG2992 G1473 whomG3739 he foreknew.G4267 OrG2228 do you notG3756 knowG1492 inG1722 ElijahG* whatG5100 [3saysG3004 1theG3588 2scripture],G1124 howG5613 he intercedesG1793 G3588 with GodG2316 according toG2596 G3588 Israel,G* saying,G3004

1Pe_1:20 having been foreknownG4267 indeedG3303 beforeG4253 the foundingG2602 of the world,G2889 but being manifestedG5319 G1161 atG1909 the lastG2078 of theG3588 timesG5550 forG1223 us,G1473

2Pe_3:17 YouG1473 then,G3767 beloved,G27 foreknowing,G4267 guardG5442 thatG2443 notG3361 by theG3588 [2of theG3588 3unlawful onesG113 1delusion]G4106 having been led away,G4879 you should fall fromG1601 your ownG3588 G2398 steadfastness!G4740

Apostolic Bible Polyglot

 

[Zaatar71]

Wow you really do have some weird views of God.

Or could foreknowledge mean just what we see in scripture.
"to have knowledge before hand" G4267
Which come from these two words:
G4253 before & G1097 to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of

foreknowledge G4268
Which comes from G4267

So what we see is that God had knowledge before hand not intimate relationships as you seem to think

So what do we see in scripture? Well we do not see the odd understanding that you try to attach to the word.


G4268
Act_2:23 This oneG3778 [2by theG3588 3confirmedG3724 4counselG1012 5andG2532 6foreknowledgeG4268 G3588 7of GodG2316 1delivered up];G1560 having taken,G2983 [2byG1223 4handsG5495 3lawlessG459 5staking him upG4362 1you did away with].G337

1Pe_1:2 according toG2596 the foreknowledgeG4268 of GodG2316 the father,G3962 inG1722 sanctificationG38 of spirit,G4151 inG1519 obedienceG5218 andG2532 sprinklingG4473 of bloodG129 of JesusG* Christ.G5547 FavorG5484 to youG1473 andG2532 peaceG1515 be multiplied.G4129

G4267
Act_26:5 foreknowingG4267 meG1473 from the beginning,G509 (ifG1437 they should wantG2309 to witness)G3140 thatG3754 according toG2596 theG3588 exactestG196 sectG139 G3588 of ourG2251 religionG2356 I livedG2198 a Pharisee.G*

Rom_8:29 ForG3754 of whomG3739 he foreknew,G4267 alsoG2532 he predefinedG4309 conformable toG4832 theG3588 imageG1504 G3588 of his son,G5207 G1473 forG1519 G3588 him to beG1510.1 G1473 first-bornG4416 amongG1722 manyG4183 brethren.G80

Rom_11:2 [2did notG3756 3thrust awayG683 G3588 1God]G2316 G3588 his peopleG2992 G1473 whomG3739 he foreknew.G4267 OrG2228 do you notG3756 knowG1492 inG1722 ElijahG* whatG5100 [3saysG3004 1theG3588 2scripture],G1124 howG5613 he intercedesG1793 G3588 with GodG2316 according toG2596 G3588 Israel,G* saying,G3004

1Pe_1:20 having been foreknownG4267 indeedG3303 beforeG4253 the foundingG2602 of the world,G2889 but being manifestedG5319 G1161 atG1909 the lastG2078 of theG3588 timesG5550 forG1223 us,G1473

2Pe_3:17 YouG1473 then,G3767 beloved,G27 foreknowing,G4267 guardG5442 thatG2443 notG3361 by theG3588 [2of theG3588 3unlawful onesG113 1delusion]G4106 having been led away,G4879 you should fall fromG1601 your ownG3588 G2398 steadfastness!G4740

Apostolic Bible Polyglot

Yes, it means just what it says in scripture, just like scripture uses the word.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes, it means just what it says in scripture, just like scripture uses the word.

Yes foreknown. God being Omniscient knows all those that will freely trust in His risen son. God knowing what will happen does not cause it to happen.

If you doubt this then remember He also foreknows all the sin and evil that will happen.