Imputed Righteousness

[KenH]

1] you are a Jew {the people of Jesus Christ}

The people of Christ are all of God's elect from the beginning of time to the the second coming of Christ when this heavens and earth will be burned up and replaced with the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness. (2 Peter 3:10-13)

If what you say was a true view than it would be God that is responsible for all those that do not repent or believe, He could have made them repent and believe but did not and man could not do so on their own.

Romans 9:14-24
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[KenH]

I'm abiding by His rules, not mine.

Salvation is not a sporting event, Charlie.

 

[Charlie24]

Salvation is not a sporting event, Charlie.

NO, it's not, but it has rules to follow!

Guess what happens if they're not followed?

 

[KenH]

NO, it's not, but it has rules to follow!

Guess what happens if they're not followed?

Well, Charlie, while you are following "rules", I am following Christ and trusting in His perfect righteousness alone.

 

[Charlie24]

Well, Charlie, while you are following "rules", I am following Christ and trusting in His perfect righteousness alone.

That is the 1st rule I'm following.

The 2nd rule is keeping that faith and not plucking myself out of His hands.

Heb. 3:14

"For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"

As Paul said in Eph. 1, the Holy Spirit is our down payment until the resurrection.

It's not final till then.

 

[KenH]

It's not final till then.

If you are saying that a person can be saved one minute and then lost the next, you are badly mistaken. That is the same false teaching I grew up with in the Church of Christ. None of God's elect will be lost. It is an impossibility.

John 10:28-30
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one.

Romans 8:31-39
What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
As it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Charlie24]

If you are saying that a person can be saved one minute and then lost the next, you are badly mistaken. That is the same false teaching I grew up with in the Church of Christ. None of God's elect will be lost. It is an impossibility.

John 10:28-30
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one.

Romans 8:31-39
What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
As it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You're misunderstanding that, Ken.

Rev. 3:11

"Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."

This is the Crown of Righteousness here that Christ is speaking of.

Paul mentions this crown in 2 Tim.

Don't think Satan can't use man to teach false doctrine to take that crown from you!

 

[Charlie24]

You're misunderstanding that, Ken.

Rev. 3:11

"Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."

This is the Crown of Righteousness here that Christ is speaking of.

Paul mentions this crown in 2 Tim.

Don't think Satan can't use man to teach false doctrine to take that crown from you!

You see, Ken, false doctrine can cause one to lose faith and fall away from what saves us.

Many crowns have been taken by Satan through false teachers, but the decision was not made by that false teacher, they plucked themselves out of His hands through the loss of the specific faith required by God.

 

[KenH]

Don't think Satan can't use man to teach false doctrine to take that crown from you!

God saved me and will keep me saved, and Satan can't stop Him from doing so.

Jude 1:24-25
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[Silverhair]

The people of Christ are all of God's elect from the beginning of time to the the second coming of Christ when this heavens and earth will be burned up and replaced with the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness. (2 Peter 3:10-13)



Romans 9:14-24
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Ken you can quote scripture that I agree with, but that is not the issue, It is your calvinist flawed theory of divine determinism that places God in the position of being responsible for all the evil.

It is your WCF/LBCF that state that clearly so when you refer to scripture for support you then have to deny your own confessions.

But as usual you error when you think you were picked out prior to creation. But even if that were true then you come back to God being responsible for all those that deny Him. Remember they were not one of your so called "elect" so they were condemned prior to even existing. So much for your loving God Ken. Calvinism is flawed from the start but you just refuse to accept that reality.

 

[KenH]

@Charlie24

Lots of bad things spiritually speaking can happen to the reprobates, including those make a false profession of faith, as the apostle John wrote about.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[Charlie24]

God saved me and will keep me saved, and Satan can't stop Him from doing so.

Jude 1:24-25
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Yes, He certainly is able to keep you from falling, as long as you believe and don't lose heart.

That's why Paul said this.

Eph. 6:11-13

Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

 

[Charlie24]

@Charlie24

Lots of bad things spiritually speaking can happen to the reprobates, including those make a false profession of faith, as the apostle John wrote about.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

That is the seed that never took root.

That is not what we're talking about.

 

[KenH]

t is your WCF/LBCF that state that clearly so when you refer to scripture for support you then have to deny your own confessions.

I don't follow the WCF nor the LBCF.

So much for your loving God Ken.

God loves His elect. He hates the reprobates.

Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

It is your calvinist flawed theory of divine determinism that God in the position of being responsible for all the evil.

When a person lies, God is not the moving his lips and tongue.

Also, I am a Sovereign Grace Baptist, not a Calvinist. I have not read Calvin, except what other people have quoted about him that I have heard or read.

But even if that were true then you come back to God being responsible for all those that deny Him.

Romans 9:10-13
And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
(for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Romans 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 

[Silverhair]

God saved me and will keep me saved, and Satan can't stop Him from doing so.

Jude 1:24-25
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

But you have to hope that the faith and salvation you think you have is actually true. Remember you had nothing to do with it and even your repentance and faith had to be done for you or given to you.

How could you know that you are regenerate? The only true test is to persevere to the end in saving faith. If you fail to persevere, that only reveals that while you may have thought your faith was real, it was only a case of self deception, or even worse, divine deception. John Calvin called this divine deception “evanescent grace”. So you can make the claim you are saved but you have no basis on which to make it.

Calvinists have it backwards
"A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved" Calvinist Loraine Boettner
They have a person saved prior to them believing in Christ Jesus.

 

[KenH]

es, He certainly is able to keep you from falling, as long as you believe and don't lose heart.

And there is no doubt that will be the case as salvation is all of God, and none of man.

Christ is the Author and the Finisher (Completer) of my faith, not me.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.

 

[KenH]

That is the seed that never took root.

That is not what we're talking about.

It is what I am talking about.

 

[Charlie24]

It is what I am talking about.

I'm not talking about someone who was never saved and has no fruit to recognize.

I'm talking about born-again believers transferring there faith to something other than faith in Christ for their salvation, or adding something to that faith alone as the Galatians did and Paul told told them, "you have fallen from Grace."

 

[Charlie24]

I'm not talking about someone who was never saved and has no fruit to recognize.

I'm talking about born-again believers transferring there faith to something other than faith in Christ for their salvation, or adding something to that faith alone as the Galatians did and Paul told told them, "you have fallen from Grace."

Has to edit that from Corinthians to Galatians.

 

[KenH]

They have a person saved prior to them believing in Christ Jesus.

Justification is from eternity, and there are also aspects of it that involve events in time - the cross of Christ, and God-given faith., but it all began back in eternity.

How could you know that you are regenerate?

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:19-20 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.