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Do you believe the once saved can again be lost?

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Does this… Hebrews 6:4,5

those who have once been enlightened,
who have tasted the heavenly gift,
who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and
the powers of the coming age—

… refer to saved, born again, Holy Spirit in-dwelt, new creation in Christ believers?

The context is a letter to Jewish people, who are either Jewish Christians or Jewish potential converts inquiring about Christianity, warning them against rejecting or abandoning Christ for the old covenant, and urging them toward spiritual maturity.

“Shared in the Holy Spirit” does sound like the person was born of the Spirit, but could it rather mean they simply experienced the joy in the fellowship of true believers, as a spectator? Or got a divine healing?

Enlightened is not necessarily transformed.

Tasted does not mean consumed by.

Those terms could refer to a casual, superficial event.

And does “impossible…to be restored to repentance” mean a backsliding person, who thought they were a genuine Christian, cannot be forgiven, cannot return to the Father as a prodigal?

Or does it mean you cannot ask Jesus to save you again, get baptized again, repent of all past sins again like a new convert?

In the Old Testament, when Israel and Judah fell away, and worshiped pagan gods lustfully and sacrificed their first born offspring to demons on blasphemous altars, God begged and pleaded with them to return to Him. He guaranteed He would forgive them and fight against their enemies.

Solomon let outlandish pagan seductive women lure him into worshiping their false idols, yet the Bible includes his Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Solomon.

Peter denied knowing Christ 3 times, but was restored to Him.

But Christians who backslide can lose their salvation and are going to hell?

Bible Hub states:

Hebrews was written to professing Jewish believers under pressure to abandon Christ and revert to Temple Judaism before AD 70. The epistle alternates soaring Christology with sober warnings. Hebrews 5:11–6:12 is the third warning, urging maturity (6:1) and perseverance (6:11-12) against the lethal pull of apostasy.

The readers stand at the hinge of redemptive history. To revert to sacrifices (10:29) after receiving knowledge of the once-for-all atonement (9:12) would be tantamount to repudiating the only efficacious sacrifice, leaving no second repentance (cf. Numbers 15:30-31). The warning mirrors Israel’s Kadesh-Barnea rebellion (3:7-19): covenant participation without heart-faith ends in exclusion.

Hebrews 6:6 does not teach that one who is truly regenerated can lose salvation. The text describes those who partake of covenant blessings, yet never exercise saving faith.

Their decisive repudiation makes subsequent repentance impossible because outside of Christ no further sacrifice exists. The passage stands as a real and necessary warning that sifts mere professors from possessors and propels believers toward steadfast, fruitful maturity in the grace that cannot fail.


If we want to understand how we should understand "enlightened" then we should look to the context and where it was used before.

Eph_1:18 the eyes of your understanding G1271 being enlightened G5461 (G5772); that you may know G1492 (G5760) what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,

Heb_6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened G5461 (G5685), and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

The context would indicate that it is to be understood as "to enlighten, spiritually, imbue with saving knowledge" so we do not see a casual interaction with Christians.

Now we can look at "impossible" for this we should look to a verse that I think will bring clarity to Heb 6:6.

Mat 19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible G102, but with God all things are possible G1415."

Man cannot through human effort bring a person who has once repudiated God back to trusting in God. But we should not think such is beyond the power of God if that is what He wants to do. But we also have to remember that God will honor the choices we make.

We also have to be aware that we are not speaking of someone who has fallen into sin, has backslidden, but of someone who has made the wilful decision to repudiate all that they know of God.

Those that backslide will be chastened by God to bring them back into the fold.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Scripture does not say “nothing can separate us from Him BUT ourselves”. It says nothing can separate us from Him.

“Nothing” includes ourselves.

Please don’t add to that teaching.

Peace to you

If you can't see that we can depart from the faith and it's only through our own faults that we do it, then go ahead and believe it.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
If you can't see that we can depart from the faith and it's only through our own faults that we do it, then go ahead and believe it.

@canadyjd

You don't have to worry about having the resposibility of your own faith. Peter tells us in 2 Peter 1 how to keep from falling and asssures us in 1:10 "if we do these things we shall never fall."

2 Peter 1:10

"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Biggest problem for you view is that the text says soil #2 believed and we see that soil # 3 believed but did not bring fruit to maturity. He would be what Pal called a babe in the faith.
Not a problem as Soils #2 & 3 were never saved. Soil 2 lacked commitment and fell way, and Soil 3 produced no fruit, thus was not indwelt.

God said Soil #2 was temporary, thus not given "eternal" life. Soil #3 produced no fruit, thus unsaved. John 15:5
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Not a problem as Soils #2 & 3 were never saved. Soil 2 lacked commitment and fell way, and Soil 3 produced no fruit, thus was not indwelt.

God said Soil #2 was temporary, thus not given "eternal" life. Soil #3 produced no fruit, thus unsaved. John 15:5

Does your bible not have the words "They believe G4100 for a season" in it. That is soil #2

G4100
b. in a moral or religious reference
1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith 1bc) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith

You said soil #3 produced no fruit but the text says " bring no fruit to maturity G5052" or "their fruit does not mature G5052" That is quite a bit different from what you are saying Van.

G5052
1. to bring to (perfection or) maturity
a. of fruits
b. of pregnant women
c. of animals bringing their young to maturity

John 15:5 just adds to what has been said in Luke 8:13-14. The two soils do not mature and fall away and are lost and do not receive eternal life at the final resurrection.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
None of these are actually a real problem because you’re missing the greater application. When you hear the preaching or the Word of God which is the Word of the kingdom, it may take hold in you and be fruitful. You may love to hear it but never take it to heart. You might receive it and apply it for a moment so that it appears you are a growing Christian, but in time allow it to be choked out by the other things in life. Or you may not have paid attention at all and the Word may never have entered your heart when it was preached.
What was the last Word shared with you? How did you receive it? Are you a stony self righteous Christian that the Word cannot take root in? Do you listen at all? Do you let the world and cares of life become more important? Do you retain it and become fruitful?
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Does your bible not have the words "They believe G4100 for a season" in it. That is soil #2

G4100
b. in a moral or religious reference
1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith 1bc) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith

You said soil #3 produced no fruit but the text says " bring no fruit to maturity G5052" or "their fruit does not mature G5052" That is quite a bit different from what you are saying Van.

G5052
1. to bring to (perfection or) maturity
a. of fruits
b. of pregnant women
c. of animals bringing their young to maturity

John 15:5 just adds to what has been said in Luke 8:13-14. The two soils do not mature and fall away and are lost and do not receive eternal life at the final resurrection.
Sorry Sir, but you are just posting nonsense. Just because someone believes superficially, or does not believe He is their Lord, does not automatically save the person. Pushing automatic salvation that can be lost is a long way from the biblical gospel.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Sorry Sir, but you are just posting nonsense. Just because someone believes superficially, or does not believe He is their Lord, does not automatically save the person. Pushing automatic salvation that can be lost is a long way from the biblical gospel.

Van I am just showing you what the bible says I cannot make you believe it.

We are not saved by our faith but because we believe. We see in both cases that they believed.

What we see is that these people faced competing-loves, and they chose to love the world more than God, and on that account ultimately fell away.
 
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