What I get out of your post is....take notes when you are young.
If you took better notes you could just tell us when everything happened.
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Has no Biblical foundation
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
If you took better notes you could just tell us when everything happened.
What I get out of your post is....take notes when you are young.
If you took better notes you could just tell us when everything happened.
I can't even tell you what happened with me from day to day.
I think I need one of those body cams so I can watch the video to see what I've been doing.
37818
Well-Known Member
Extra Biblical claims versus Biblical claims.
With the Biblical claims we can have a common ground.
The earliest proposed crucifixion date, Julian date 30 AD, Friday April 7.
Sir Isaac Newton's now commonly accepted Julian date 33 AD, Friday April 3.
One of the few Wednesday Julian dates, 30 AD, April 5.
Now our Roman days of the week names are from midnight to midnight.
Jewish calendar dates are in fact from sunset to sunset.
The start of Jewish months is a point disagreement on their alignment with the days of the week. And 30 and 29 day months.
With the Biblical claims we can have a common ground.
The earliest proposed crucifixion date, Julian date 30 AD, Friday April 7.
Sir Isaac Newton's now commonly accepted Julian date 33 AD, Friday April 3.
One of the few Wednesday Julian dates, 30 AD, April 5.
Now our Roman days of the week names are from midnight to midnight.
Jewish calendar dates are in fact from sunset to sunset.
The start of Jewish months is a point disagreement on their alignment with the days of the week. And 30 and 29 day months.
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Thanks to @Jerome I found what I was looking for. A thread called Good Friday from March 19<2018
The following is my post dated April 3
I have stated before I know, no Greek. Therefore one would have to check with the Greek guru members, on the board, as to the correctness of that part covering Luke 24.
Part Seven - Jesus' Three Days And Three Nights Of Entombment And The Resurrection
The following is a post T Cassidy made in the thread
The crucifixion was on the Preparation Day which fell on Wednesday, 14 Nisan, in 31 AD (the only year that fits, astronomically).
His body was taken down as the sabbath (special High Sabbath - first day of passover) was approaching.
He was in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights.
He was gone when the ladies arrived before dawn on Sunday, the first day of the week.
Now, just a bit of simple math.
Sundown Wednesday to sundown Thursday - day 1 (Special Sabbath)
Sundown Thursday to sundown Friday - day 2 (Ladies shopped for burial supplies)
Sundown Friday to sundown Saturday - day 3 (weekly sabbath - ladies couldn't finish the burial process)
He arose after sundown and was gone before sunup Sunday when the ladies arrived to complete the burial process.
The following is my post dated April 3
I have stated before I know, no Greek. Therefore one would have to check with the Greek guru members, on the board, as to the correctness of that part covering Luke 24.
Part Seven - Jesus' Three Days And Three Nights Of Entombment And The Resurrection
The following is a post T Cassidy made in the thread
The crucifixion was on the Preparation Day which fell on Wednesday, 14 Nisan, in 31 AD (the only year that fits, astronomically).
His body was taken down as the sabbath (special High Sabbath - first day of passover) was approaching.
He was in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights.
He was gone when the ladies arrived before dawn on Sunday, the first day of the week.
Now, just a bit of simple math.
Sundown Wednesday to sundown Thursday - day 1 (Special Sabbath)
Sundown Thursday to sundown Friday - day 2 (Ladies shopped for burial supplies)
Sundown Friday to sundown Saturday - day 3 (weekly sabbath - ladies couldn't finish the burial process)
He arose after sundown and was gone before sunup Sunday when the ladies arrived to complete the burial process.
Yep, that's the one I go with. It fulfills all of Scripture accept when Christ met the men on the road and they said "this is the third day since these things happened."
If you use the same method in the Wed. crucifixion to count the days they just don't work out. But this overall is the best suited day in my opinion.
37818
Well-Known Member
.
My "One of the few Wednesday Julian dates, 30 AD, April 6," was a typo. It was supposed to be "April 5."
Julian date 30 AD, April 6 was the Thursday.
My "One of the few Wednesday Julian dates, 30 AD, April 6," was a typo. It was supposed to be "April 5."
Julian date 30 AD, April 6 was the Thursday.
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37818
Well-Known Member
Just counting days of the week.
* Friday as 1. Saturday then is 2. Sunday becomes 3.
* Thursday as 1. Friday as 2. Saturday is 3.
* Wednesday as 1. Thursday is 2. Friday is 3.
* Friday as zero. Saturday would then be 1. Sunday becomes 2.
* Thursday as zero. Friday as 1. Saturday as 2. Sunday becomes 3.
* Wednesday as zero. Thursday as 1. Friday as 2. Saturday as 3. Sunday becomes day 4.
Ref Luke 24:20-21.
* Friday as 1. Saturday then is 2. Sunday becomes 3.
* Thursday as 1. Friday as 2. Saturday is 3.
* Wednesday as 1. Thursday is 2. Friday is 3.
* Friday as zero. Saturday would then be 1. Sunday becomes 2.
* Thursday as zero. Friday as 1. Saturday as 2. Sunday becomes 3.
* Wednesday as zero. Thursday as 1. Friday as 2. Saturday as 3. Sunday becomes day 4.
Ref Luke 24:20-21.
Read the long post dealing with Luke 24:21 it explains that the meaning is the third day is totally past. It passed at the evening of the first day of the week.
It's taken so many ways you can't argue it, or at least I don't.
I agree that the above are extra-biblical claims. The Bible does not authorize the use of a calculated calendar. The Bible also does not set the counting of a day by sunset to sunset.
This is why you have so many differences.
The Temple day was dawn to dawn. The year was by observance rather than calculation (calculation was slowly introduced but became the criteria centuries after the Resurrection).
Now....can we pretend that modern Judiasm accurately reflects ancient Jewish practices?Yes. We can pretend anything. But that does not make it real.
Does it make your conclusions wrong? No. They could be right. But they are not factual (they could equally be wrong).
The danger only comes in when such ignorance causes people to think that there is error in Scripture. Or if you were teaching history.
37818
Well-Known Member
.
Exodus 12:18, In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
37818
Well-Known Member
Please give this Bible reference.
Yes. But how was the month determined? By calculation or on the witness of two people (observation)?
This is one place where your legalism fails. At one time it was only by observation, and when calculation was introduced it did not determine the start (the witnesses were still required), but all of this gave way to calculation and the modern Jewish calendar (centuries after the Resurrection).
You ignore the Temple practice in measuring a day. You ignore differences between the Galilean practice, those outside Jerusalem, and the Temple standard.
You ignore far too much.
Could your theory be correct? Yes. But is it factual? No. Is it biblical? No. What you assume to make your theory work is not biblical.
As far as the time of the day this meal was eaten, I was unaware it being in the evening was ever questioned.
It is a matter of fact. We know the Temple practice. We know many of these disagreements between the two major sects.
Do you have a biblical reference stating the Temple measured the day from dusk to dusk?
We also know that the Temple priests 150 years before Christ worshipped Zeus (outwardly). It is not in the Bible but to ignore this fact is not to understand tge environment into which Christ was born.
That states the time of day....not the start and end of the day.
You do not comprehend history (here a willful ignorance because your faith hinges on knowing these exact dates....as you said you cannot view the crucifixion as a historical event without knowing the exact date).
So believe as you will. Just stop objecting when others who actually study and know a bit more history and facts disagree with you.
JonC is right, 37818, but there is nothing wrong with you believing a certain date, most all of us have our opinions.
The key to understanding the crucifixion week is Jn 12:1 where we are told this;
Joh 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.
We will see that this day is Sunday and from here we can count the days and ascertain exactly on what day Jesus Christ was crucified. We can count going forward and backward and there can really be no doubt. He was crucified on Friday and he was entombed on Friday just before 6 PM. Friday was day 1 of the 3 days in the grave.
We know that Jesus came to Bethany (house of figs) the day before the event we call the triumphal entry on the donkey because it was supper time in Bethany and he visited friends in the evening.
1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.
2 There (in Bethany) they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him.
This is day 1 of the six days. This is important to see.
Look at V 12.
Joh 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
Keep reading the text and you will see the events of the triumphal entry are being described. This is day two, a Monday.
With these two days in mind let's go to Mark 11.
Before quoting Mark let me just say that the gospels in total have 89 chapters. Twenty Nine of those chapters describe the last eight days of Jesus ministry on earth, including his death, burial and resurrection. This is almost exactly 1/3 of the gospels devoted to these events. It shows how important they are.
We see here that Mark makes no distinction between day 1 and day 2. Without careful study one might think Mark is telling us that Jesus made the triumphal entry into Jerusalem the same day he came to Bethany. But we read John setting us straight on that. It was the next day, Monday.
I am going to quote Luke saying something that is highly relevant to know in this context.
Lu 21:37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
38 And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.
Now we know, not without evidence, that Jesus went to the temple early in the morning for the first 4 days. The day prophetically corresponded to the four thousand years of OT history. There was no temple in the next two thousand years wherein we the church have lived, we being the temple of the Lord individually and collectively.. Anyone with eyes to see can see that is true.
Ep 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Back to Mark for the end of day 2, Monday, in the temple.
11 And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.
The beginning of day 3, Tuesday.
Mark 11:12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. (the cursing of the fig tree, the national symbol of Israel).
The end of day 3, Tuesday.
Mr 11:19 And when even was come, he went out of the city.
The beginning of day 4, the last day he would enter the Temple. This is very significant and prophetic and typical.
Mr 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
This day is Wednesday. Most of his parables were delivered on this day. We learn much about the next two days as God counts time, a thousand years as a day and a day as a thousand years.
In Mark's gospel Jesus goes from the Temple on Wednesday to the Mount of Olives where he will give this discourse to four of his apostles. The end of the day on Wednesday.
Mark 13:11 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings [are here]!
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
At the end of the Olivet Discourse we see Jesus making these statements Concerning his going away and he would have an unannounced return and he bid them to watch for it. Read here;
Mr 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
Remember, this is the end of day 4. Now, look what is next.
MK 14:1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.
These two days would be Thursday and Friday and death is exactly what happened. Friday is when the work week ended and the Rest began. The next day would be the Sabbath Day. Sabbath means rest. In history, these two days are where we still are today but we are very close to the Sabbath Rest. Each of these days prophetically follows the formula for the length of a day the Lord gave us, a 1000 year day. There were 4 one thousand year days before Jesus came into the world and there will be three 1000 year days to finish this week of 1000 year NT days. The last of those years, the beginning of which Christ will have returned and will rule and reign for the whole 1K day. This day is called in15 books of Scripture "the day of the Lord. It is a theme of scripture. It is 1K years long according to God.
So Jesus died on Friday, at 3 PM and he was put in the tomb just shortly before 6 PM. Friday counts for a day in the tomb, the first day.
The preparation day according to Mark. This was on Friday. The women came after 3PM to prepare the dead body of Jesus for burial with spices and herbs but did not have the time after Joseph put it in the tomb before the Sabbath began at 6 PM One can see this by the language of the text. This is the reason they are going at sunup on Sunday and the rising of the son has a double meaning. The sunrise and the son rise both happened and that time Jesus spent in the tomb on this day is counted as the whole day.
Look at the language in the text.
Mark 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
45 And when he knew [it] of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.
46 And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.
47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.
16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
So you have the whole week of 7 days and the beginning of a new week. It is all prophetic and it employs both the thousand year day formula of God and the 24 hour day of man. There is much more to learn.
Joh 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.
We will see that this day is Sunday and from here we can count the days and ascertain exactly on what day Jesus Christ was crucified. We can count going forward and backward and there can really be no doubt. He was crucified on Friday and he was entombed on Friday just before 6 PM. Friday was day 1 of the 3 days in the grave.
We know that Jesus came to Bethany (house of figs) the day before the event we call the triumphal entry on the donkey because it was supper time in Bethany and he visited friends in the evening.
1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.
2 There (in Bethany) they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him.
This is day 1 of the six days. This is important to see.
Look at V 12.
Joh 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
Keep reading the text and you will see the events of the triumphal entry are being described. This is day two, a Monday.
With these two days in mind let's go to Mark 11.
Before quoting Mark let me just say that the gospels in total have 89 chapters. Twenty Nine of those chapters describe the last eight days of Jesus ministry on earth, including his death, burial and resurrection. This is almost exactly 1/3 of the gospels devoted to these events. It shows how important they are.
We see here that Mark makes no distinction between day 1 and day 2. Without careful study one might think Mark is telling us that Jesus made the triumphal entry into Jerusalem the same day he came to Bethany. But we read John setting us straight on that. It was the next day, Monday.
I am going to quote Luke saying something that is highly relevant to know in this context.
Lu 21:37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
38 And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.
Now we know, not without evidence, that Jesus went to the temple early in the morning for the first 4 days. The day prophetically corresponded to the four thousand years of OT history. There was no temple in the next two thousand years wherein we the church have lived, we being the temple of the Lord individually and collectively.. Anyone with eyes to see can see that is true.
Ep 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Back to Mark for the end of day 2, Monday, in the temple.
11 And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.
The beginning of day 3, Tuesday.
Mark 11:12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. (the cursing of the fig tree, the national symbol of Israel).
The end of day 3, Tuesday.
Mr 11:19 And when even was come, he went out of the city.
The beginning of day 4, the last day he would enter the Temple. This is very significant and prophetic and typical.
Mr 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
This day is Wednesday. Most of his parables were delivered on this day. We learn much about the next two days as God counts time, a thousand years as a day and a day as a thousand years.
In Mark's gospel Jesus goes from the Temple on Wednesday to the Mount of Olives where he will give this discourse to four of his apostles. The end of the day on Wednesday.
Mark 13:11 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings [are here]!
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
At the end of the Olivet Discourse we see Jesus making these statements Concerning his going away and he would have an unannounced return and he bid them to watch for it. Read here;
Mr 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
Remember, this is the end of day 4. Now, look what is next.
MK 14:1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.
These two days would be Thursday and Friday and death is exactly what happened. Friday is when the work week ended and the Rest began. The next day would be the Sabbath Day. Sabbath means rest. In history, these two days are where we still are today but we are very close to the Sabbath Rest. Each of these days prophetically follows the formula for the length of a day the Lord gave us, a 1000 year day. There were 4 one thousand year days before Jesus came into the world and there will be three 1000 year days to finish this week of 1000 year NT days. The last of those years, the beginning of which Christ will have returned and will rule and reign for the whole 1K day. This day is called in15 books of Scripture "the day of the Lord. It is a theme of scripture. It is 1K years long according to God.
So Jesus died on Friday, at 3 PM and he was put in the tomb just shortly before 6 PM. Friday counts for a day in the tomb, the first day.
The preparation day according to Mark. This was on Friday. The women came after 3PM to prepare the dead body of Jesus for burial with spices and herbs but did not have the time after Joseph put it in the tomb before the Sabbath began at 6 PM One can see this by the language of the text. This is the reason they are going at sunup on Sunday and the rising of the son has a double meaning. The sunrise and the son rise both happened and that time Jesus spent in the tomb on this day is counted as the whole day.
Look at the language in the text.
Mark 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
45 And when he knew [it] of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.
46 And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.
47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.
16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
So you have the whole week of 7 days and the beginning of a new week. It is all prophetic and it employs both the thousand year day formula of God and the 24 hour day of man. There is much more to learn.
37818
Well-Known Member
Can a said opinion be presented with an explanation? Were the why of differences can be understood?
Believe what you will is all I can say.
Anything you come up with can be shot down from Scripture.
So I'm not going to argue this any further.