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Born Anew?

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1) We do not need to change our nature as fallen, dead in sin, individuals. No verse says we do!
John 3:3. 'Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.' Not only will he not enter it (v.5), but he cannot even understand it. We need no better example of this that Nicodemus. He hasn't the faintest idea what the Lord Jesus is talking about. "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter into his mother's womb and be born a second time?" A little later , he throws up his hands and asks, "How can these things be?" He hasn't got a clue. He desperately needs to be born again.
Many lost people do seek the narrow door, demonstrating the fallen nature can understand and seek spiritual things. Luke 13:24.
I did point you to v.25 a little while ago, but obviously to no avail. Let's look in a little bit of detail.
First of all, we have a problem with Romans 3:11. 'There is none who seek after God.' So does the Bible contradict itself? Not at all, but wait a minute! There's another text to be considered. Matt. 7:7-8. "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened."
So how can Luke 13:24 say that there are many who seek when Romans 3:11 says that there is none who seek God and Matthew 7:7 says that if we seek we shall find? Again, does the Bible contradict itself? God forbid!

So let's look at Luke 13:24 again. 'Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and not be able.' The Greek word translated 'strive' is agonizomai, a very strong verb, from which we get the word 'agony.' We are to agonize to enter that narrow gate, to fight, contend, struggle, to 'endeavour with strenuous zeal.' It is the word used of contenders in the Olympic Games battling to win the prize.

Why are we to strive in such a strenuous way? Because many will seek to enter and not be able. When will that be? This is where Luke 13:25 is so helpful. 'When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, "Lord, Lord, open for us," and He will answer and say to you, "I do not know you, where you are from....."' Does this remind you of anything? How about the parable of the wise and foolish virgins? Matthew 25:11-12. 'Afterwards the other virgins came also, saying, "Lord, Lord, open to us!" But he answered and said, "Assuredly I say to you, I do not know you."'

Now think about Noah and the ark. Noah was a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:5). He was warning the people of his day that they needed to repent and come onto the ark. All the time the animals were coming onto the ark, the doors were open; anyone could have come in and been saved. But no one entered save Noah and his family. Then we read in Gen. 7:16, 'And the LORD shut [Noah] in.' It was too late. When the rain came down in torrents and the fountains of the great deep were broken up, I expect many people strove to enter; I expect they hammered on the door of the ark until their knuckles were bleeding, but it was no good. The Master of the house had risen up and shut the door.

So when the Lord Jesus says, "Many, I say to you, will seek to enter," He is speaking of the time of our Lord's return. When the Lord Jesus is seen coming with the clouds, 'all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him.' They will mourn because it will be too late. That is when many will seek to enter and not be able. Before that time, we read that, '... The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands ........ and they did not repent of their murders of their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts' (Rev. 9:20-21; c.f. 16:21).

That is why Psalm 95 says, 'Today, if you will hear His voice: "Do not harden your hearts,' and why Paul says, 'Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation' (1 Cor. 6:2). But nonetheless, unless God the Holy Spirit opens hearts to believe, no one will turn to Christ. 'There is none who seeks after God.' 'No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws them.' Praise God, there will be, on that Last day, a great crowd that no one can number, standing before the throne and crying out, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb."
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
With all of the above to consider,
I encourage those that are reading this to rejoice, my friends, if you've truly believed on Christ, from the heart...

Because not everyone has been afforded that knowledge;
While those that have :

" ....are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel"
( Hebrews 12:22-24 ).

May God bless you.
 
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Charlie24

Well-Known Member
That said, I encourage those that are reading this to rejoice, my friends, if you've truly believed on Christ, from the heart...
Because not everyone has been afforded that knowledge... and those that have :

" ....are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel"
( Hebrews 12:22-24 ).

May God bless you.

How does God decide who He will afford that knowledge and who He will not?

My Bible says that the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
How does God decide who He will afford that knowledge and who He will not?
We're not told how...only that He does, Charlie.

Romans 9 tells us who ( the vessels of mercy afore prepared unto glory ), but not in detail.
That knowledge is reserved to Himself.

Even so, God's people manifest themselves in who they are, by their belief of His words ( John 8:43-47 ).
 
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Dave G

Well-Known Member
My Bible says that the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men.
Then everyone would know who He is, wouldn't they, Charlie?

Yet in reality, most do not, and they do so to this day.
They hate Him, use His name for a curse word, compose rock songs that denigrate Him and otherwise demonstrate their utter lack of respect for who He is.
That is the society in which we live.

Mine tells me who the "all men" are, by stating this:

" For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."
( Titus 2:11-14 ).

His grace has appeared to "all men" and in doing so, it teaches the "us", the "whosoever believeth" that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we ( those that have believed on Christ ) should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world...
Looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of Jesus Christ, who is both our God and our Saviour.

Those that look for His coming, Charlie.

Follow the pronouns and decide who it is that Paul is saying the "us" and "we" are...
Who are the "all men" in context with and how are they defined?
Who looks for that blessed hope but those that have believed on Him?
Certainly not unbelievers, my friend.

That's how I understand who the "all men" that Paul was referring to here, are...
Those that have received Him, "... which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God". :Smile
 
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Charlie24

Well-Known Member
We're not told how...only that He does, Charlie.

Romans 9 tells us who ( the vessels of mercy afore prepared unto glory ), but not in detail.
That knowledge is reserved to Himself.

Even so, God's people manifest themselves in who they are, by their belief of His words ( John 8:43-47 ).

Outside of Calvinism we know how He gives that saving knowledge to man.

"Today if you will hear His voice, harden not your hearts...."
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Then everyone would know who He is, wouldn't they, Charlie?

Yet in reality, most do not, and they do so to this day.
They hate Him, use His name for a curse word, compose rock songs that denigrate Him and otherwise demonstrate their utter lack of respect for who He is.
That is the society in which we live.

That's why mine tells me who the "all men" are, by stating this:

" For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."
( Titus 2:11-14 ).

His grace has appeared to "all men" and in doing so, it teaches the "us", the "whosoever believeth" that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, WE ( those that have believed on Christ ) should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world...
Looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of Jesus Christ, who is both God and Saviour.
Those that look for His coming, Charlie.

Follow the pronouns and decide who it is that Paul is saying the "us" and "we" are...
Who are the "all men" in context with and how are they defined?
Who looks for that blessed hope but those that have believed on Him?
Certainly not unbelievers.

That's how I understand who the "all men" that Paul was referring to here, are...
Those that have received Him, "... which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God". :Smile

I don't want to get started on this private interpretation that only the Calvinists use.

Not trying the be rude, just to the point.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
I don't want to get started on this private interpretation that only the Calvinists use.

Not trying the be rude, just to the point.

I believe the great apostle Paul wrote the book of Hebrews.

Notice he didn't say "if you hear His voice" as in God's choice.

Paul said "if you WILL hear His voice" as in man's choice.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Outside of Calvinism we know how He gives that saving knowledge to man.
Outside of brief snippets of the Scriptures called "verses" ( and because of even further details found in His word regarding why some believe and others do not ), I know that He hasn't, Charlie.
Details such as those found in Acts 2, Acts 13:48, John 10:26, John 1, John 3, John 6, John 8, John 10, Romans 8, Romans 9, Romans 11, Ephesians 1, Ephesians 2 and so forth.

My friend, there's much more to the Scriptures than I think you're currently seeing.

For example,
Contrary to popular belief, He does not have His angels cast those that He loves into everlasting punishment in the Lake of Fire.
That is reserved for those whom He hates and who hate Him and His ways...

Not those that love Him, from the heart.
I don't want to get started on this private interpretation that only the Calvinists use.

Not trying the be rude, just to the point.
I'm not a "Calvinist", Charlie, and I never have been influenced by anything that they have written.
Please stop accusing me of being one and accept the fact that I see these things in the Scriptures for myself, not because I was taught them by a man or an institution of men.

In fact, I was taught what you seem to believe, for over 25 years in the Baptist churches that I once was a member of.


Again, may God bless you sir and I wish you well.
 
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Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Outside of further details in the Scriptures, I know that He hasn't, Charlie.
Details such as those found in Acts 13:48, John 10:26, John 1, John 3, John 6, John 8, John 10, Romans 8, Romans 9, Ephesians 1, Ephesians 2 and so forth.

My friend, there's much more to the Scriptures than I think you're currently seeing.

For example,
He does not have His angels cast those that He loves into everlasting punishment in the Lake of Fire.
That is reserved for those that whom He hates and who hate Him and His ways...

Not those that love Him, from the heart.

I'm not a "Calvinist", Charlie, and I never have been influenced by anything that they have written.
Please stop accusing me of being one and accept the fact that I see these things in the Scriptures for myself, not because I was taught them by a man or an institution of men.

In fact, I was taught what you seem to believe, for over 25 years in the Baptist churches that I once was a member of.


Again, may God bless you sir.

It seems you're standing on the fence, Dave. Not sure which way to go.

That's what I gather from reading your posts.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
It seems you're standing on the fence, Dave. Not sure which way to go.
I'm very sure which way to go, Charlie.
I'm going to be with my Saviour, who loved me and gave Himself for me and others like me...

The "nobodies" of this world.

He teaches them how to understand His word...
He doesn't leave that job up to imperfect men ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, 1 John 2:20-27 ).
We don't need to go to the "Arminians" or the "Calvinists" or anyone else in order to help us to understand His words.
He's given us His Spirit for that, and opened our understanding that we might understand the Scriptures ( Luke 24:45 ).

"He that is of God heareth God's words..."

I'll take my leave of this thread now, as I've said all that I feel the Lord would have me to say about this subject of why someone is born again, in addition to answering some of the questions posed by others.


May God bless you all in your studies and in your every trial and tribulation,
Knowing that He is always with you and will never leave you nor forsake you.
 
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Charlie24

Well-Known Member
I'm very sure which way to go, Charlie.
I'm going to be with my Saviour, who loved me and gave Himself for me and others like me...

The "nobodies" of this world.

He teaches them how to understand His word...He doesn't leave that job up to imperfect men ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, 1 John 2:20-27 ).

Well I pray you do know which way to go.

It's a very serious accusation against God to say that He chooses some for Himself and leaves the rest on their own to perish in Hell.

I think we all need to think that over very carefully.
 
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