The "D" Chart

[SovereignGrace]

Ok, we're worlds apart with a space between another world apart.

We will not agree on anything!

Using gematria, Νέρων Καῖσαρ (Nérōn Kaîsar) adds up to 666. He was the sixth of seven Caesars.

Revelation dates timing here:

“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.“[Revelation 17:8-10]

Caesar Nero committed suicide 6-9-68 and was succeeded by Galba, who served as Caesar for ~ 8 months.

Julius
Augustus
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius
Nero
Galba

These are the “seven” John was referring to.

 

[Salty]

We will not agree on anything!

Now that you might agree!

 

[Ascetic X]

That doesn’t fit the Revelation narrative my friend.


The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.[Revelation 1:1-3 NASB 1995]


”Soon” and “near” cannot in any way mean millennia later.

“Soon” and “time is near” are from God’s viewpoint, not man’s.

 

[SovereignGrace]

“Soon” and “time is near” are from God’s viewpoint, not man’s.

Not so, as John was commissioned to write to the seven churches of Asia Minor, modern day Turkey. So, I’m expected to believe John was warning these believers of things that would take place millennia later? Why warn them of things they would not experience? Audience relevance is one of the keys to understanding what the writer was actually saying to them. We need to read the Bible through the lens of the audience, IOW, how would they understand what was written to them.

Here‘s an example: **God shows me that on 8-22-3965 where you are living, I saw that China, Russia, Great Britain, Germany, Japan, and Brazil, launched bombs to the place you are living at on 3-13-2026. What sense would it make for me to warn you of this? Same with Revelation. It would be fruitless for John to warn those seven churches of doom and gloom that would take place millennia later.

**And I know God doesn’t do that today, but using it to make my point.

 

[Ascetic X]

Not so, as John was commissioned to write to the seven churches of Asia Minor, modern day Turkey. So, I’m expected to believe John was warning these believers of things that would take place millennia later? Why warn them of things they would not experience? Audience relevance is one of the keys to understanding what the writer was actually saying to them. We need to read the Bible through the lens of the audience, IOW, how would they understand what was written to them.

Here‘s an example: **God shows me that on 8-22-3965 where you are living, I saw that China, Russia, Great Britain, Germany, Japan, and Brazil, launched bombs to the place you are living at on 3-13-2026. What sense would it make for me to warn you of this? Same with Revelation. It would be fruitless for John to warn those seven churches of doom and gloom that would take place millennia later.

**And I know God doesn’t do that today, but using it to make my point.

Perhaps it is both. Warnings about issues that were contemporary to the churches, but also prophetic about future events?

Where do you draw the line in this book dividing what was contemporary to them and what was distant future?

 

[SovereignGrace]

“Soon” and “time is near” are from God’s viewpoint, not man’s.

“Soon” usages:

Now He was telling them a parable to show that at all times they ought to pray and not to lose heart, saying, “In a certain city there was a judge who did not fear God and did not respect man. There was a widow in that city, and she kept coming to him, saying, ‘Give me legal protection from my opponent.’ For a while he was unwilling; but afterward he said to himself, ‘Even though I do not fear God nor respect man, yet because this widow bothers me, I will give her legal protection, otherwise by continually coming she will wear me out.’” And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge said; now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them? I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”[Luke 18:1-8]


And behold, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared and a light shone in the cell; and he struck Peter’s side and woke him up, saying, “Get up quickly.” And his chains fell off his hands.[Acts 12:7]

”It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance, and I saw Him saying to me, ‘Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.’[Acts 22:17-18]

Festus then answered that Paul was being kept in custody at Caesarea and that he himself was about to leave shortly.[Acts 25:4]

The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.[Romans 16:20]

I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long;[1 Timothy 3:14]

None of the using of ”tachos” is to be understood as being delayed for an extended period of time.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Perhaps it is both. Warnings about issues that were contemporary to the churches, but also prophetic about future events?

Where do you draw the line in this book dividing what was contemporary to them and what was distant future?

I don’t think that’s the proper way to interpret Revelation. The reason why the church isn’t mentioned from Revelation 4:1——->18:24 isn’t because the church is raptured in the future, but was a fulfillment of Jesus’ Olivet Discourse. It was God’s wrath being poured out on Jerusalem during the great tribulation that met its fulfillment in AD 70, at the hands of the Roman armies. Notice how Matthew, Mark, and Luke cover the Olivet Discourse, but John’s gospel is silent. John’s Apocalypse (Revelation) is him covering the Olivet Discourse in greater detail.

 

[Charlie24]

Using gematria, Νέρων Καῖσαρ (Nérōn Kaîsar) adds up to 666. He was the sixth of seven Caesars.

Revelation dates timing here:

“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.“[Revelation 17:8-10]

Caesar Nero committed suicide 6-9-68 and was succeeded by Galba, who served as Caesar for ~ 8 months.

Julius
Augustus
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius
Nero
Galba

These are the “seven” John was referring to.

I thought the 5 kingdoms that fell were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece.

The one that was in John's day was Rome. The one to come is the Federation of Nations/ the ten horns that bring the anti-christ into power.

And the 8th of course the anti-christ himself.

But what do I know?

 

[SovereignGrace]

“Soon” and “time is near” are from God’s viewpoint, not man’s.

“Near” usages:

Therefore many of the Jews read this inscription, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Latin and in Greek.[John 19:20]

Therefore because of the Jewish day of preparation, since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.[John 19:42]

While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.[Luke 19:11]

John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there; and people were coming and were being baptized⁠—[John 3:23]

Then, when they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and drawing near to the boat; and they were frightened.[John 6:19]

There came other small boats from Tiberias near to the place where they ate the bread after the Lord had given thanks.[John 6:23]

Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles off;[John 11:18]

Therefore Jesus no longer continued to walk publicly among the Jews, but went away from there to the country near the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim; and there He stayed with the disciples.[John 11:54]

“Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near;[Matthew 24:32]

There are several more verses that use “eggus“ (near) and they all mean near, close at hand.

 

[Charlie24]

Now that you might agree!

Maybe in the next life.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I thought the 5 kingdoms that fell were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece.

The one that was in John's day was Rome. The one to come is the Federation of Nations/ the ten horns that bring the anti-christ into power.

And the 8th of course the anti-christ himself.

But what do I know?

It says seven kings, not kingdoms. Rome has been commonly called “City of Seven Hills”. Seven kings are mentioned, but not by name. Five are fallen, as I just posted Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and Claudius. Nero commits suicide and Galba succeeds him and lasts ~ 8 months. That fills the Revelation 17 timeline to a “tee”.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I thought the 5 kingdoms that fell were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece.

The one that was in John's day was Rome. The one to come is the Federation of Nations/ the ten horns that bring the anti-christ into power.

And the 8th of course the anti-christ himself.

But what do I know?

We see in Daniel the prophecy of the four beasts and who they represent, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. Rome is the beast that the Harlot sat upon. The harlot, Babylon, was Israel. They were playing the harlot by worshiping idols and not God, ergo, given the appellation “harlot”.

 

[Charlie24]

I thought the 5 kingdoms that fell were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece.

The one that was in John's day was Rome. The one to come is the Federation of Nations/ the ten horns that bring the anti-christ into power.

And the 8th of course the anti-christ himself.

But what do I know?

The kings are the leaders of the empires/kingdoms at the time they fell, whoever they were.

I told you we won't agree on anything, we are total Biblical opposites.

 

[Charlie24]

We see in Daniel the prophecy of the four beasts and who they represent, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. Rome is the beast that the Harlot sat upon. The harlot, Babylon, was Israel. They were playing the harlot by worshiping idols and not God, ergo, given the appellation “harlot”.

OK

 

[SovereignGrace]

I thought the 5 kingdoms that fell were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece.

The one that was in John's day was Rome. The one to come is the Federation of Nations/ the ten horns that bring the anti-christ into power.

And the 8th of course the anti-christ himself.

But what do I know?

I don’t think the anti-Christ is a single person, but the movement behind the evil.

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.[1 John 2:18,22]

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.[1 John 4:1-3]

For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.[2 John 7]

These ppl had the spirit of anti-Christ that taught Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh. I can’t help but think John was pointing to Gnostics and their Gnosticism as being the spirit of anti-Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

I don’t think the anti-Christ is a single person, but the movement behind the evil.

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.[1 John 2:18,22]

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.[1 John 4:1-3]

For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.[2 John 7]

These ppl had the spirit of anti-Christ that taught Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh. I can’t help but think John was pointing to Gnostics and their Gnosticism as being the spirit of anti-Christ.

OK

 

[SovereignGrace]

The kings are the leaders of the empires/kingdoms at the time they fell, whoever they were.

I told you we won't agree on anything, we are total Biblical opposites.

Again, it said five kings, not kingdoms, were fallen. They had fallen already at the time of John’s writing Revelation. This is not a future event for us.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The kings are the leaders of the empires/kingdoms at the time they fell, whoever they were.

I told you we won't agree on anything, we are total Biblical opposites.

You are pouring your theology into these texts, and that’s called eisegesis. You are trying to make them fit your belief system, my friend.

 

[Charlie24]

Again, it said five kings, not kingdoms, were fallen. They had fallen already at the time of John’s writing Revelation. This is not a future event for us.

OK

 

[Charlie24]

You are pouring your theology into these texts, and that’s called eisegesis. You are trying to make them fit your belief system, my friend.

OK