But when did Christ crush/bruise the serpent’s head?
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- Thread starter Salty
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They used Rome to kill Jesus as they had no authority to kill him themselves. Many times in the OT, Israel was likened to a harlot for their idolatry. Hosea and Gomer typify this.
I told you I believe in a future, literal, physical, second advent of Christ. I even said that not all of Revelation has been fulfilled yet. You’re bearing false witness against me my friend, and that’s a sin.
I don't know what you believe. You say this and that and they don't match.
That's because we are on 2 separate frequencies and disconnected.
You do know what I believe as I plainly told you. Not all of Revelation is fulfilled and there is a future, literal, physical second advent of Christ is plain for all to see.
I want to clarify this. Jesus bruised/crushed Satan’s head at the cross and His subsequent resurrection. When the temple was destroyed, no one looked to the temple and those sacrifices any more. I believe that’s what Paul was referring to in Romans 16, the destruction of the temple.
We are to far apart to meet anywhere, so let's just let this one go.
This is a topic that I find very interesting and I would like to weigh in on it. I have posted this explanation of the resurrection before but never got much feed back, though I think it is in total agreement with the scriptures.
First of all the resurrection is not all at once and at one time. It has a three fold order and for things of God to have a three-fold order is not a novelty but is expected in the doctrines of the Bible. So, in Israel the harvests (wheat and Barley - spring & Fall) that are associated with the feast days of Israel and the offerings is very instructive.
Here are the feasts of Israel:
1) Passover - April 14 - Jesus the Lamb of God
2)Unleavened Bread - Jesus in the tomb
3)First-fruits. - Jesus is called the first fruits of the resurrection
4) Feast of Weeks (Pentecost - Fifty) because it is celebrated 50 days after First-fruits
5) Oct 1-Trumpets-Rapture of the church
6) Oct 10 - Day of atonement - Tribulation
7) Oct 15 - Tabernacles - restoration and salvation of Jewish nation in the millennial day
This is a snapshot of the last 3000 years of the 7000 years of human history.
The first resurrection is in three stages like the harvest.
1) First Fruits - When Jesus and OT saints rose from the dead.
Mt 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
2) the main harvest - the rapture of the church, which began at Pentecost and left at the rapture with the sound of the last trump.
1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
3) The gleanings - The righteous dead killed during the great tribulation.
Re 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
The next thing after Jesus comes back to earth in Re 19:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
One resurrection in three. This is the signature of God. Surely most Christians know and believe the trinity and are not surprised by it. I make this post hoping to convince doubters to believe the words and honor the context and to be wary of those who would convince you to doubt.
God has told the same story in different ways over and over again. Our duty is to believe him.
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That's the pre-trib view of the first resurrection, with the second resurrection being all of the lost from all time in Rev. 20:11-15.
Is that the way you see it or do you see it differently?
37818
Well-Known Member
The resurrection followed immediately with the rapture, everyone from the air meeting on Earth per Revolution 20:4-5. And per Thessalonians 4:17c, . . . and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
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That is the way I see it but here is the way the inspired word of God expresses it.
Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
There are only two resurrections to the eternal state as God counts resurrections. 1) the resurrection of the just, and 2) the resurrection of the unjust. The resurrection of the just is in three phases yet it is one, the first, resurrection The resurrection of the unjust is at one time, after the first resurrection and includes the bodies and the souls of the damned.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Re 11:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead (the body = physical) which were in it; and death and hell (the soul = spirit) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death (body) and hell (soul) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
There is not much time left to win them but faith comes by hearing the gospel of Christ. Let's all be preachers. The stakes are high.
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Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
The verse you quoted is not about Jesus crushing the serpent’s head. It says to its audience “under your feet”. And this verse was written after Jesus rose from the dead.
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.[Romans 16:20]
The same man taught us, JD.
Very professional the way you put all of the 2 posts together. I can see you have a heart for the lost, a man after God's own heart.
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
Your triune resurrection theory is not convincing. God does not do everything in threes as a signature.
Matthew 27 references are not a resurrection in the sense of permanence. The saints did not rise from the dead with glorified eternal new bodies. Like Lazarus, their original mortal bodies returned to life, but did die again.
Revelation 19:5 says “this is the first resurrection”, but by your accounting, it would be the second or third resurrection.
37818
Well-Known Member
.
@JD731's teaching is sometimes so wrong it is funny.
Death is the last enemy.
1 Corinthians 15:26, The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
@Charlie24,
@JD731's teaching is sometimes so wrong it is funny.
Death is the last enemy.
1 Corinthians 15:26, The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
That's why I made an amendment to that post as I posted it before I thought it through.
Paul was executed by Emperor Nero around 64 AD, so the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple was yet in the future when Paul wrote Romans, and specifically 16:20.
The Jewish Christians were suffering persecution from their own ppl and were being executed for standing firm in their faith in Christ. They, the Jews, were doing this under Satan's influence. However, in 70 AD, millions of Jews were killed by the Roman armies, the temple was flattened, and there was no more Jewish persecution, of if there was any, it was minimal in comparison to pre-70 AD.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Re 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
If pressed to explain yourself can you think of anything that is left to corrupt after death is cast into the lake of fire forever before the new heaven and new earth, which is the eternal state. I will wait while you think.
There are no 2 people on earth that believe exactly the same thing through the Scriptures.
If any 2 can agree on the concept of any given doctrine it doesn't mean they agree on all the minute details.
On a forum such as this with so many different beliefs that vary with the wind the concept is close enough.
Okay, let's connect the dots and see that I am right.
Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed acts of immorality, and those who dwell on the earth were made drunk with the wine of her immorality.” And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly. And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.[Revelation 17:1-7]
Here we see a harlot adorned in costly array, array only the wealthy, nobility, could afford, scarlet and purple. Many times in the OT, Jews were likened to harlots/whores, as they were bowing the knee to foreign deities. They were called various unflattering names:
Isaiah 1:10 they were called Sodom and Gomorrah.
Jeremiah 23:14 calls them the same.
Ezekiel 16:46-49 they are compared to Sodom.
Hosea 8:13 & 9:3 says they will return to Egypt, meaning playing the harlot with foreign deities.
John calls them Sodom and Egypt in Revelation 11:8.
So this harlot in verse 3 and henceforth, is referring to Israel. There is something she has in her right hand that is rather striking, it was full of abominations and unclean things. Plus, she was drunk with the blood of the saints. Go back to Matthew 23 and read the judgment chapter where Jesus pronounced seven woes against their religious leaders. Jesus said “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?“Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation."[Matthew 23:29-36] This all points to the harlot on the beast is Israel.
“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while.[Revelation 17:8-10]
It's common knowledge that Rome is called "The City on Seven Hills". The Jews were under Roman rule and could not administer the death penalty, which is why they tried so hard to get Pilate to execute Jesus for them. They had to rely on Rome to execute those who they opposed. Yet, they did stone Stephen to death, but this was more of a mob rule murder than an execution. James the Just was executed at the request of Ananus ben Ananus in 62 AD per Josephus. Even after Christ's resurrection and ascension, they still persecuted Jewish Christians. They followed Paul every where he went. They beat the Christians, who left praising God they were found worthy to be beaten for the name of Jesus. But the vast majority of Christian executions were done by Rome.
And Jesus said that all the blood shed at the hands of the Jews, shall come upon "this generation". If you read the four gospels, you will find that every time Jesus says "this generation", He isn't referring to some future generation, but that generation at the time of His earthly ministry. They sealed their doom with these words, “His blood shall be on us and on our children!”[Matthew 27:25b]
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
This destruction of the temple is not what the verse refers to. You seem to possess an anti-Semitic bias. Saying Israel is the harlot Babylon in Revelation and now equating Jews with Satan. I do not see Satan crushed yet,
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.[Romans 16:20]
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