I am reminded of the time Kenneth Copeland on tv had gone into big time rebuking of the spirit of covid, how God now bound that sickness and Satan, and he blew his hot air and said was now gone, but problem was people still catching it, some even still die, after he did all that!
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Finding the right definition of a word in the Greek
1:1 Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes, [NASB]
My commentary:
1) Only Paul was "called" (invited to be) an apostle. This refers to the Damascus Road Encounter.
2) Yes, part of the requirements of being an Apostle of Christ is to be an Ambassador of Christ, But all born anew believers are Ambassadors, but we are NOT Apostles, chosen by Christ and eyewitnesses. (Paul was an eyewitness of a visible manifestation of Jesus after Jesus had ascended.)
3) Yes, God chose Paul, after Paul "called on the name of the Lord" for salvation and as an Apostle.
4) Yes, Paul was "set apart" to present the gospel of Christ to the Gentiles.
And here are my comments on your paraphrase.
1) Well done! Part of actual bible study is to put our understanding of the meaning in our own words! This allows us to crosscheck our understanding with other verses presenting a similar message to see if our view is consistent with all scripture.
2) No, to be an Apostle carries a greater designation than to be an Ambassador. We present what the Apostles presented, like the difference between prophets and teachers.
3) Yes, Paul mentions his communication is not only from him, but also from fellow workers, in this case Sosthenes.
Yet another off topic useless post claiming the gospel is NOT the gospel. Give it a rest.
The simple biblical sequence - invited, agreed, chosen.
When Paul "called on the name of the Lord" he had been invited, and now had agreed, and then he was chosen as an apostle.
Many call it "Conditional Election!"
Anyone can deny Paul called on the Name of the Lord, which is scripture, and falsely claim Paul was compelled via Irresistible grace. Except nothing in scripture says or suggests such nonsense.
Would love to see the Van inspired bible translation and His inspired Systematic Theology text book
I don't think so! Gal. 1:15. 'But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, to reveal His Son in me.....'
There is a general call (e.g. Mark 1:15) and there is particular call (e.g. Luke 5:27-28). Saul experienced the second kind.
Acts 15:18. 'Known to God from eternity are all His works.' The idea that Paul might have said "No" and then God would have had to go and knock someone else over with a blinding light, and then maybe someone else, and on and on until one said "Yes" is crackers.
Psalm 110:3. 'Your people shall be volunteers (or 'willing') in the day of Your power.'
Also make Jesus really foolish, as either He could not see Paul rejecting the offer, or else could do nothing about it
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
I don’t see Paul as being someone who would have told God no. Paul’s zeal for God was that He was persecuting the church because he saw them as being against God.
Paul was not some barbarian who didn’t know God and got a sudden revelation. Paul already knew a lot of Who God had revealed Himself to be. He did get a sudden revelation, but it was just a quick, “you didn’t connect the dots” revelation and not a, “you have been worshipping false gods” revelation.
That's not quite how Paul describes himself in 1 Tim. 1:13-15: 'a blasphemer, a persecutor and a violently arrogant man' (NKJV margin), and also 'the chief of sinners.' He needed 'exceedingly abundant' grace from the Lord, as we all do, not just a little nudge in the right direction.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Yes. He was a human being. I didn’t say he wasn’t. But Paul described himself as having a zeal for God.
Philippians 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
What does scripture say, did Paul call on the name of the Lord or was Paul "compelled by irresistible grace" to come to faith. One view is the literal scripture, the other must be read into the text. You guys do not have any basis for rejecting God's word.
Finding a single English word to translate a single Greek word every time is an impossibility. I have mentioned context, but one should also compare the appearance of the word in one verse of Scripture with its meaning in other places. But sometimes, it has to be accepted that the Greek word has multiple meanings.
Take, for example, the word teleo,translated ‘it is finished’ in John 19:30. One liberal theologian (Albert Schweitzer, I think) before WW2 claimed that this was a cry of despair; that the Lord Jesus had been expecting God to take Him down from the cross, and finally realised that He had been mistaken. However, teleo appears quite a few times in the New Testament and has some very interesting meanings :-
Matt 11:1, A.V. ‘…..When Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples…..’
Matt 17:24. “Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?”
Luke 2:39. ‘So when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord…..’
Luke 18:31. ‘…..And all the things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished.’
So what was made an end of at the cross? Our sins, the guilt of them and their very memory in the mind of God (Jer 31:34).
What was paid? The price of our redemption. ‘Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us’ (Gal 3:13).
What was performed? All the righteous requirements of the law (e.g. Heb. 10:11-14).
What was accomplished? All the work that the Father had given Christ to do (John 17:4).
All these things were accomplished at the cross, and teleo cannot really be confined to just one of those meanings. That is why a good commentary can be so very helpful and no one should feel any shame in using one (c.f. Proverbs 11:14).
Take, for example, the word teleo,translated ‘it is finished’ in John 19:30. One liberal theologian (Albert Schweitzer, I think) before WW2 claimed that this was a cry of despair; that the Lord Jesus had been expecting God to take Him down from the cross, and finally realised that He had been mistaken. However, teleo appears quite a few times in the New Testament and has some very interesting meanings :-
Matt 11:1, A.V. ‘…..When Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples…..’
Matt 17:24. “Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?”
Luke 2:39. ‘So when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord…..’
Luke 18:31. ‘…..And all the things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished.’
So what was made an end of at the cross? Our sins, the guilt of them and their very memory in the mind of God (Jer 31:34).
What was paid? The price of our redemption. ‘Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us’ (Gal 3:13).
What was performed? All the righteous requirements of the law (e.g. Heb. 10:11-14).
What was accomplished? All the work that the Father had given Christ to do (John 17:4).
All these things were accomplished at the cross, and teleo cannot really be confined to just one of those meanings. That is why a good commentary can be so very helpful and no one should feel any shame in using one (c.f. Proverbs 11:14).
Last edited:
Finding a single English word to be primarily used to translate a single Greed word MEANING is not impossible but advantages.
This is a simple concept, and not difficult to grasp. Thus we need to ask why has a strawman argument be hoisted upon the unwary?
Let us consider "Teleo" (G5055) it means to complete or finish a task, even one with several steps. Thus to fulfill a purpose or mission or obligation is the primary meaning.
In Matthew 11:1, nearly all the English translations go with "finished" (more than 60) whereas made an end is found in about 1/2 dozen. with even the NKJV changing to "finished from the KJV made an end.
In Matthew 17:24, while the vast majority of English translations do indeed translate "teleo" as pay, since another Greek word is often translated as pay (apodidomi-G591) fulfill actually conveys the idea of not fulfilling an obligation.
In Luke 2:39 we see than several translation stick with the primary meaning and use finished, but a better translation is "fulfilled." Again the idea is they fulled the obligation.
What was fulfilled at the cross? Christ's mission of being the perfect sacrifice for the sins of humanity, providing the means of reconciliation. Thus Christ paid the ransom. But that did not result in God choosing to redeem us individually, that occurs when God credits our faith as righteousness.
There is nothing wrong with reviewing commentaries concerning the meaning of a verse under study, but to not challenge the veracity of the translation is to be willing to be led astray. Recall all the know it all Pharisees had accepted the traditions of men making scripture to no effect.
Bottom line, Teleo is translated into about 8 different English words, when two or three would better present God's actual word.