Finding the right definition of a word in the Greek

[Martin Marprelate]

What would be better would be to address why more than 3 English words are used to convey essentially 2 word meanings, finish and fulfill?

Why translate the same word meaning into more than one or two English words or phrases?

The English language has more words in it than any other, and around twice as many as koine Greek.
Therefore, when one attempts to translate from Greek into English, one usually has a choice of which English word to use, each with a different shade of meaning. The context is what will determine choice.

While the above is true, it does not hold good for every word. There are three Greek words which can be translated as 'love:' philia, agape and eros, although the latter does not occur in the New Testament. Again, the context will help, but an authority as well-known as Don Carson tells us that philia and eros are synonyms - that there is no difference between them.

 

[37818]

<snip>
While the above is true, it does not hold good for every word. There are three Greek words which can be translated as 'love:' philia, agape and eros, although the latter does not occur in the New Testament. Again, the context will help, but an authority as well-known as Don Carson tells us that philia and eros are synonyms - that there is no difference between them.

1 Corinthians 16:22, If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

Philei is used.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The English language has more words in it than any other, and around twice as many as koine Greek.
Therefore, when one attempts to translate from Greek into English, one usually has a choice of which English word to use, each with a different shade of meaning. The context is what will determine choice.

While the above is true, it does not hold good for every word. There are three Greek words which can be translated as 'love:' philia, agape and eros, although the latter does not occur in the New Testament. Again, the context will help, but an authority as well-known as Don Carson tells us that philia and eros are synonyms - that there is no difference between them.

I'm sorry! I goofed! Don Carson says that philia and agape are synonymous. Sorry!

 

[Van]

Why does this poster continue to trot out his nonsense, even after he has been corrected.
Of course, John 3:19; Romans 3:11; 1 Cor. 2:14 all support @JesusFan.
Luke 24:13 reads: 'Now behold, two of them were travelling that same day to a village called Emmaeus, which was seven miles from Jerusalem.' I'm not sure what that has to say about anyone seeking the Narrow Door.
Perhaps this poster is thinking of Luke 13:24. If so, then he has previously been told simply to look at the next verse to find out the time context of the verse, but unfortunately, this poster will not consider anything that contradicts his own theories. Proverbs 14:7 applies to the rest of us.

1) I hope forum leadership notes I have not attacked anyone, but have attacked Calvinism. However, the Calvinists are at it again, attacking me rather than my views.

2) Luke 13:24 reads: “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

3) The claim Luke 13:25 closed the narrow gate is absurd, the command is for the lost to strive now. To claim no one now seeks the Narrow Door or Gate is absurd. See Matthew 7:14.

4) The citation of Proverbs 14:7 is yet another personal attack.

 

[Van]

The English language has more words in it than any other, and around twice as many as koine Greek.
Therefore, when one attempts to translate from Greek into English, one usually has a choice of which English word to use, each with a different shade of meaning. The context is what will determine choice.

While the above is true, it does not hold good for every word. There are three Greek words which can be translated as 'love:' philia, agape and eros, although the latter does not occur in the New Testament. Again, the context will help, but an authority as well-known as Don Carson tells us that philia and eros are synonyms - that there is no difference between them.

1) Just because a gun is loaded does not mean it should be shot.

2) Yes, one the intended meaning of a word or phrase is determined from those consistent with the historical-grammatical meaning, a number of English words or phrased, each a synonym could be used. But the issue is to use the same synonym each time the same word or phrase meaning is determined.

3) Yes the same meaning can be intended using different Greek words or phrases. So one synonym could be used for on of the original language words, and another synonym for the other.

4) Yes, our translations sometimes mistranslate, such as begotten for unique, but over time we can continue the process of correction.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

1) I hope forum leadership notes I have not attacked anyone, but have attacked Calvinism. However, the Calvinists are at it again, attacking me rather than my views.

The problem here is that this poster's views are unique to him in most cases. Therefore an attack on his views is inevitably an attack on him. Also, the fact that he refuses to listen to anyone else but continues to trot out the same old stuff is very frustrating. Also, if he could find it in himself to be more pleasant to those who disagree with him, it might be reciprocated.

2) Luke 13:24 reads: “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

3) The claim Luke 13:25 closed the narrow gate is absurd, the command is for the lost to strive now. To claim no one now seeks the Narrow Door or Gate is absurd. See Matthew 7:14.

Luke 13:25. 'Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, "Sir, open the door for us."' Clearly this is a parable. Who is the owner of the house? God is. The gate of heaven - repentance and faith - is wide open today. All those who repent and trust in Christ for salvation will be saved. But when Christ returns, it will be too late; the door will be locked. Therefore we read in 2 Cor. 6:2. 'I tell you, now is the time of God's favour; now is the day of salvation.' And in Heb. 4:3 (quoting Psalm 95:11). 'Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.' Therefore our Lord warns His hearers, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate!" In Noah's day, the door of the ark was open while the animals came in, drawn irresistibly by God. But no humans would come save Noah and his family. Then we read, 'And the LORD shut Noah in' (Gen. 7:16). It was too late for those outside. And I bet that as the rain came down in stair-rods and the fountains of the great deep were broken up, the people of that time ran to the ark and knocked and pleaded, "Sir, open the door for us!" But it will be all too late. The message of the ark, and the message of Luke 13:25 is this: 'I tell you, now is the time of God's favour; now is the day of salvation.' But the fact is that men and women will not do so, not because God prevents them, but because they have wicked unbelieving hearts. I referenced John 3:19; Romans 3:11; 1 Cor. 2:14 earlier, but there are all sorts of texts in the O.T. also. Have a read of Jeremiah 6:16-17, for example

Now I wrote most of this in a post two or three months ago, and @Van blithely ignored it. I can't keep on writing the same thing over and over again.

.

4) The citation of Proverbs 14:7 is yet another personal attack.

It is a word of advice, and one which I intend to heed. @Van is going on 'ignore' and someone else will have to correct his nonsense.

 

[Ben1445]

Just was staing no where in the bible account were there any lost sinner who was able to resist saving faith/grace if they were among the elect and chosen in Christ Jesus

It would never come up. It would never need to since election is determined by salvation in Christ and not determinism.

The Bible also doesn’t say that there are beings living on mars so clearly there must be.

Or should that be that the Bible doesn’t say that there are NOT beings on mars so clearly there must not be.

Well whichever way you are supposed to address the silence on the topic, I did.


But I still disagree with you.
Israel, God’s elect people rejected Him.
Jesus said “How often would I have gathered you and ye would not.”

That is the will of God for His chosen people being refused by them and put on record that they did not come when our Lord would have gathered them.

 

[Craigbythesea]

I have made notes on four verses in 1 Corinthians 1, not spending much time in doing so, and I may have written down some inaccurate interpretations of some or all of those verses. This is because I don't know the right definition to choose in the Strong's concordance. Based on some previous knowledge of mine, or just by guessing, I chose the definitions that made the most sense, and tried to phrase my notes reflecting my interpretation. The definition is often just one or two words in English. In the case of the words I chose "ambassador of the gospel" I did not get that from the concordance, I don't think, but simply wrote them down because I heard them used with respect to this passage before.

These are my notes so far, two of which I posted in another thread already, (which may have been corrected by others,)) I will just leave out the Bible verses themselves as I don't really feel like typing so much.



Please help me to understand how to choose the right Greek word definitions for words, so that I can study the Bible and interpret it with accuracy. Thank you.

There is available today an excellent Greek-English lexicon that gives the reader the proper meaning of every word in the New Testament in the specific contexts in which it is used.

About three years ago, I wrote a post about the BDAG Lexicon. For your convenience, here it is again,

By the early 1900’s, the new studies in the lexicography of Koine Greek had become so great in number and significance that Erwin Preuschen published his Greek-German lexicon in 1910. Upon his death in 1920, the revision of his lexicon was entrusted to Walter Bauer and this revision was published in 1928 as the second edition. In 1930, James Hope Mouton and George Milligan independently published The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament. A thoroughly revised edition of the Preuschen lexicon was published in 1937 with only Bauer’s name on the title page. Bauer realized, however, that his lexicon, although a huge improvement over Thayer’s in terms of accuracy and completeness, needed to be thoroughly revised and updated and therefore undertook a thorough search of all Greek literature down to the Byzantine times to determine more precisely the meaning of the words found in the New Testament. This resulted in the publication of the monumental work, Griechisch-Deutsches Wörterbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der übrigen urchristlichen Literatur in 1949-1952. An English translation (by William F. Arndt and F. Wilbur Gingrich) of this lexicon was published by the University of Chicago in 1957 with the title, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature and became widely known as the “Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich Lexicon.” A second edition was published by the University of Chicago in 1979. A thorough revision by Frederick William Danker was published by the University of Chicago in 2000. It is very commonly referred to simply as the “BDAG” and this name appears on the title page in parenthesis below the full title.

The BDAG is the standard Greek-English lexicon used in our Baptist colleges, seminaries, and universities—as well as the colleges, seminaries, and universities belonging to all of the mainline Christian Denominations. It is also used by the finest biblical scholars in the Roman Catholic Church. There is no lexicon that even begins to compare with it—and in my opinion, the use of it is essential for the serious study of the New Testament.

 

[Van]

1) I hope forum leadership notes I have not attacked anyone, but have attacked Calvinism. However, the Calvinists are at it again, attacking me rather than my views.

Marprelate said:
"The problem here is that this poster's views are unique to him in most cases. Therefore an attack on his views is inevitably an attack on him. Also, the fact that he refuses to listen to anyone else but continues to trot out the same old stuff is very frustrating. Also, if he could find it in himself to be more pleasant to those who disagree with him, it might be reciprocated."​

1) My views are not usually unique. The majority of Christians do not believe Calvinism is valid. My views come straight out of scripture. For example Calvinism cites Romans 3:11 and claims no one EVER seeks God, but I post Luke 13:24 and Matthew 7:14 which say some of the lost do indeed seek God. Therefore, that view is not unique, it is the shared word of God. The lost have limited spiritual ability, able to understand spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food. This is what 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 says, so again the shared view of the word of God.

2) An attack on Van's anti-Calvinist views is NOT an attack on him.

3) But the claim I refuse to listen to anyone is an attack, not on my views, but directly upon me.

4) I do not trot out the "same old stuff" except to repeatedly refute the "same old stuff" posted by Calvinists.

5) Next, I am charged with needing to be "more pleasant." Yet another personal attack.

This post is totally off the topic of the thread, but some folks seem to think I am the one engaging in insults. It is a fiction.;

 

[Van]

SNIP
Luke 13:25. 'Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, "Sir, open the door for us."' Clearly this is a parable. Who is the owner of the house? God is. The gate of heaven - repentance and faith - is wide open today. All those who repent and trust in Christ for salvation will be saved. But when Christ returns, it will be too late; the door will be locked. Therefore we read in 2 Cor. 6:2. 'I tell you, now is the time of God's favour; now is the day of salvation.' And in Heb. 4:3 (quoting Psalm 95:11). 'Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.' Therefore our Lord warns His hearers, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate!" In Noah's day, the door of the ark was open while the animals came in, drawn irresistibly by God. But no humans would come save Noah and his family. Then we read, 'And the LORD shut Noah in' (Gen. 7:16). It was too late for those outside. And I bet that as the rain came down in stair-rods and the fountains of the great deep were broken up, the people of that time ran to the ark and knocked and pleaded, "Sir, open the door for us!" But it will be all too late. The message of the ark, and the message of Luke 13:25 is this: 'I tell you, now is the time of God's favour; now is the day of salvation.' But the fact is that men and women will not do so, not because God prevents them, but because they have wicked unbelieving hearts. I referenced John 3:19; Romans 3:11; 1 Cor. 2:14 earlier, but there are all sorts of texts in the O.T. also. Have a read of Jeremiah 6:16-17, for example

Now I wrote most of this in a post two or three months ago, and @Van blithely ignored it. I can't keep on writing the same thing over and over again.

It is a word of advice, and one which I intend to heed. @Van is going on 'ignore' and someone else will have to correct his nonsense.

1) The claim I did not refute the above claim concerning Luke 13:25 is probably false. A claim of past victory with not link to the post. Nuff said.

2) What Luke 13:25 does illustrates an aspect of the gospel opportunity, time will run out for the opportunity of the gospel. It does not teach the opportunity has already run out. It refers to a future time when the opportunity has ended. Matthew 7:14 shows that the opportunity is present for many. This answers the question, "Are there just a few that are being saved" from Luke 13:23.

3) Therefore in the here and now, many of the lost are able to seek God. Full stop.

4) The issue is NOT about the number who repent, but the number able to seek. The gate of heaven is open, but it is a narrow opening, the gate of Christ alone. And many can seek that gate, the claim no one seeks the gate is fiction, the false doctrine of Calvinism.

“For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are few who find it."​

"There are" in the Greek is in the present tense, thus many in the present are seeking, but only a few find the narrow gate.

5) LOL even in Noah's day a few found the door of the Ark, eight in all. Thus the no one ever seeks God is not supported with this non sequitur.

6) Next we get a Calvinist doctrine denial, with "men and women will not do so [seek salvation], not because God prevents them, but because they have wicked unbelieving hearts." This denies the "Fall" resulted by God's action to impose "Total Spiritual Inability" preventing according to the bogus doctrine of Calvinist, to even seek God.

7) Next we get a slew of references, none of which support the false doctrine. John 3:19 proves the lost are fallen, but does not support that they are unable to seek God. Romans 3:11 does not support the lost never seek God. It proves the lost do not seek God all the time or when they are sinning. Paul uses the OT citation to prove we are all under sin, we have all fallen short of the glory of God. 1 Corinthians 2:14 does not say the lost are unable to understand ALL the things of the spirit, that again must be read into the verse. Actually Paul is say the lost cannot understand spiritual solid food. Jeremiah 6:16-17 again says the lost reject God's guidance, but does not say ALL the lost Always reject God's guidance, that again must be read into it.

The claims of Calvinism are not based on scripture but on the dark age conjecture of people.

 

[JesusFan]

There is available today an excellent Greek-English lexicon that gives the reader the proper meaning of every word in the New Testament in the specific contexts in which it is used.

About three years ago, I wrote a post about the BDAG Lexicon. For your convenience, here it is again,

By the early 1900’s, the new studies in the lexicography of Koine Greek had become so great in number and significance that Erwin Preuschen published his Greek-German lexicon in 1910. Upon his death in 1920, the revision of his lexicon was entrusted to Walter Bauer and this revision was published in 1928 as the second edition. In 1930, James Hope Mouton and George Milligan independently published The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament. A thoroughly revised edition of the Preuschen lexicon was published in 1937 with only Bauer’s name on the title page. Bauer realized, however, that his lexicon, although a huge improvement over Thayer’s in terms of accuracy and completeness, needed to be thoroughly revised and updated and therefore undertook a thorough search of all Greek literature down to the Byzantine times to determine more precisely the meaning of the words found in the New Testament. This resulted in the publication of the monumental work, Griechisch-Deutsches Wörterbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der übrigen urchristlichen Literatur in 1949-1952. An English translation (by William F. Arndt and F. Wilbur Gingrich) of this lexicon was published by the University of Chicago in 1957 with the title, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature and became widely known as the “Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich Lexicon.” A second edition was published by the University of Chicago in 1979. A thorough revision by Frederick William Danker was published by the University of Chicago in 2000. It is very commonly referred to simply as the “BDAG” and this name appears on the title page in parenthesis below the full title.

The BDAG is the standard Greek-English lexicon used in our Baptist colleges, seminaries, and universities—as well as the colleges, seminaries, and universities belonging to all of the mainline Christian Denominations. It is also used by the finest biblical scholars in the Roman Catholic Church. There is no lexicon that even begins to compare with it—and in my opinion, the use of it is essential for the serious study of the New Testament.

Think that unles one is a Greek translation scholar though, or a professnor teaching at seminary, edition 2 is fine enough still

How Have Inclusiveness and Tolerance Affected the Bauer-Danker Greek Lexicon of the New Testament (BDAG)?

Vern S. Poythress, “How Have Inclusiveness and Tolerance Affected the Bauer-Danker Greek Lexicon of the New Testament (BDAG)?” (PDF), Originally published inthe Journal of the Evan…

frame-poythress.org

 

[Craigbythesea]

Think that unles one is a Greek translation scholar though, or a professnor teaching at seminary, edition 2 is fine enough still

How Have Inclusiveness and Tolerance Affected the Bauer-Danker Greek Lexicon of the New Testament (BDAG)?

Vern S. Poythress, “How Have Inclusiveness and Tolerance Affected the Bauer-Danker Greek Lexicon of the New Testament (BDAG)?” (PDF), Originally published inthe Journal of the Evan…

frame-poythress.org

Any bright boy or girl in middle school can use it with a little bit of effort. One should be sure, however, to acquire the Third Edition because it is easier to use than the first two editions. I have here in my study all three editions and I have used all three of them, but since I acquired the third edition, I no longer use the first two.

 

[Jerome]

Think that unles one is a Greek translation scholar though, or a professnor teaching at seminary, edition 2 is fine enough still

Well said!

 

[JesusFan]

Any bright boy or girl in middle school can use it with a little bit of effort. One should be sure, however, to acquire the Third Edition because it is easier to use than the first two editions. I have here in my study all three editions and I have used all three of them, but since I acquired the third edition, I no longer use the first two.

What did you think of the critique though?

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

I found one of the old copies of BDAG that has never been used ($100, if you're loaded) A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literat.. | eBay