Does it say God created them at that moment or that God made them, at that moment, to rule?
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Was the Sun, Moon, and Stars actually created on the fourth day of Creation...
- Thread starter Armchair Apologist
- Start date
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John
Καὶ αὕτη ἔστιν ἡ ἐπαγγελία ἣν ἀκηκόαμεν ἀπ᾽ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἀναγγέλλομεν ὑμῖν ὅτι ὁ θεὸς φῶς ἐστιν καὶ σκοτία ἐν αὐτῷ οὐκ ἔστιν οὐδεμία
That the God light is.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
because God who said, Out of darkness light to shine, From 2 Cor 4:6 I took out the words in italic.
Was that light of Genesis 1:3,4 God showing his presence upon an earth of darkness standing in the water and out of the water? If the light was good, was the darkness also that good? Consider 1 John 1:5 Does that light of Genesis 1:3.4 represent God on the earth? What about the darkness? Is it the darkness of this age that also has a god of this age? Do we see the same of light and darkness in the following/
to open their eyes, to turn from darkness to light, and the authority of the Adversary [Satan] unto God, for their receiving forgiveness of sins, and a lot among those having been sanctified, by faith that is toward me. Acts 26:18
Is what's taking place in Gen 1 :2-30 the down laying of the system [kosmos] through which Acts 26:18 could become a reality? Is, Let there be light a reaction to darkness ie Satan on the earth?
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8
Had the sin of the devil, Satan, caused the earth to become without form and void and darkness on the face of the deep, ie standing in the water and out of the water?
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Gen 1:1 In beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Peter 3:6,7 YLT through which the then world, by water having been deluged, was destroyed; and the present heavens and the earth [Gen 1:2-30], by the same word are treasured, for fire being kept to a day of judgment and destruction of the impious men.
Probably should have started a new thread. Oh well.
Καὶ αὕτη ἔστιν ἡ ἐπαγγελία ἣν ἀκηκόαμεν ἀπ᾽ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἀναγγέλλομεν ὑμῖν ὅτι ὁ θεὸς φῶς ἐστιν καὶ σκοτία ἐν αὐτῷ οὐκ ἔστιν οὐδεμία
That the God light is.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
because God who said, Out of darkness light to shine, From 2 Cor 4:6 I took out the words in italic.
Was that light of Genesis 1:3,4 God showing his presence upon an earth of darkness standing in the water and out of the water? If the light was good, was the darkness also that good? Consider 1 John 1:5 Does that light of Genesis 1:3.4 represent God on the earth? What about the darkness? Is it the darkness of this age that also has a god of this age? Do we see the same of light and darkness in the following/
to open their eyes, to turn from darkness to light, and the authority of the Adversary [Satan] unto God, for their receiving forgiveness of sins, and a lot among those having been sanctified, by faith that is toward me. Acts 26:18
Is what's taking place in Gen 1 :2-30 the down laying of the system [kosmos] through which Acts 26:18 could become a reality? Is, Let there be light a reaction to darkness ie Satan on the earth?
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8
Had the sin of the devil, Satan, caused the earth to become without form and void and darkness on the face of the deep, ie standing in the water and out of the water?
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Gen 1:1 In beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Peter 3:6,7 YLT through which the then world, by water having been deluged, was destroyed; and the present heavens and the earth [Gen 1:2-30], by the same word are treasured, for fire being kept to a day of judgment and destruction of the impious men.
Probably should have started a new thread. Oh well.
37818
Well-Known Member
.
P
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We can only live in our present. Distant things are in our past.
37818
Well-Known Member
God made them to be lights.
37818
Well-Known Member
37818
Well-Known Member
Wrong. Everyone lives in their present.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
You are the one who said
So our universe is already come to its end??
Your idea.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Genesis 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
It doesn’t say He added light to them. It says He made them.
You're going to have to do better defining your terms. What are you calling the universe?
37818
Well-Known Member
Revelation 20:11, And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
When does that end come?
Our distant visible universe is in our past before our Biblical creation.
When the universe comes to its end per Revelation 20:11.
Our end of the universe will be in our now when it occurs.
You have quite an imagination, Einsten. Was this one of your 'thought experiments'?
37818
Well-Known Member
It has to do with the limitation of the speed of light is finite.
I think you meant to say the speed of light is constant and is the speed limit of the universe. And it might be. Presuming Creation was no supernatural act, that notion would seem to provide a difficulty.
Did you know one could postulate a spherical universe rotating around a stationary earth at it's center, and you couldn't prove it wrong scientifically? You could only object to it on the basis of philosophy? Not only that, it could be explained using the same theories of Relativity. That means c could take on values many of orders of magnitude above 299,792,458 m/s.
Which it would have to do the nearer the edge of the universe a body exists, because it would be making one full revolution every 24 earth hours.
Are you sure 'established science' compels you to imagine something other than what we're obviously told happened on the Fourth Day?
Armchair Apologist
Active Member
I believe we can confidently say that God is sovereign over every "law of physics" that he has set in place and by which scientists observe and understand the universe as we know it today. On the third day, God created all of the plant life including fully matured sequoia trees. If you were Adam and for grins and giggles, you decided on the sixth day to cut down one of these sequoias, how many "growth rings" do you suppose he would count? What would these growth rings tell you?
In the very same manner that we observe the sequoia tree, I would observe the stars in the sky and understand that God created those stars along with the photons from these stars reaching "Planet Earth" on the very day in which they were created!
I guess we could discuss the implications of the Crab Nebula which was a "Super Nova" event that took place in AD 1054 but is 6,500 light-years away meaning that the cosmic event actually took place in BC 5446 meaning that according to a "Young Earth" timeline, the event took place either during or shortly after the creation and if God created the Crab Nebula as is observed today, why did he not make it visible to "Planet Earth" until AD 1054? Fun fact: AD 1054 is also the year of the "Great Schism!"
Are there any other astronomical events such as this that are many thousands or millions of light-years from earth and have only recently (during recorded history) become visible to the inhabitants of "Planet Earth?"
There's science, and then there are scientists...people who aren't really sure what they're observing, and try to hide the fact.
"People need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the observations," Ellis argues. "For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations." Ellis has published a paper on this. "You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view, there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that."
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/250803533_Thinking_Globally_Acting_Universally
The physical evidence is undeniable. God kept it for our discovery for a reason.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
2 Peter 3:5-6
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
And for some context from the writer,
2 Peter 2:5
And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Scripture speaks of willful ignorance of the world before Noah’s flood. It is not talking about some pre-Adam civilization.
The world was without form and void. That means that there was nothing left over from your earlier civilization that had any form left to it and it was empty of anything that could be thought of as left over from another civilization.
Imagine a pile of bricks that eventually becomes a two-story colonial house and the wall around the estate, and the walks and patios in the gardens.
Now imagine the builder indicating that pile and saying, The kitchen's right there, I just haven't put it together yet. In that sense, kitchen was without form and void, but it was there. The whole estate was there, at the time it was just a pile of bricks. The Deep was the pile of bricks from which God formed the earth and the heavens.
Just to be clear, I don't mean the earth was a ball of rocks and dirt in the Deep, I mean that the earth was part of the water of the Deep, and that God formed the earth, and everything else in the universe, from the waters of the Deep. The earth and all the elements were made out of water...it's elements rearranged and combined...fused...into all the elements that we have discovered and classified in chemistry class.
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth...
Boom. The Deep is there. Then the process begins.
This is a simple picture of what is described in Genesis 1, accepting Moses's statement that the heavens and the earth, and all they contain, were made in six days.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
But not left over fossils from a previous creation gone sour, ruled by Satan.
When I read without form and void, it means that there is nothing there except the basic elements.
I could agree better with your illustration if you could say that there was only the material to make the bricks in their most basic molecular form. And yes I meant molecular not atomic. Water is molecular.
But all this is in response to people who believe that satans dominion of the earth was destroyed and covered with water which is supposed to explain fossils, Atlantis, and anything else that is not expressly given to us in Scripture.
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